# How UFOs fly?

So, I saw something on TV the other day, about this guy who claimed to work in some S3 division of Area 51. He claimed to be a physicsts who worked there, and told how UFOs fly.

He said they have three "anti-gravity" guns that fire out the bottom. He said the guns interfere with the waves of gravity, and when they move forward they disrupt the gravity in such a way that it's like the UFO is falling down a hill for infinity.

It seemed neat when he talked about it. What do you guys know of this?

Uhh very specific :)

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
aychamo said:
What do you guys know of this?

Bob Lazar is your guy I think.

My theory is that Lazar was hired to clean the toilets at A51. I think he might have actually been on-site once but that's all. His government issued paycheck - one of the only pieces of evidence to support any of his claims - was only for about $500, so if he was at 51 it was only for a day or two. Of course he claims that the MIB have erased his past, yet he claims to have attended Cal Tech where no year book even has a place for his name. How did the MIB manage to pull off that little trick years later? Edit: It gets a little difficult to judge his knowledge of physics since he keeps jumping back and forth from human physics to alien physics. Of course it could be that he knows a little bit and he makes a lot up...don't you think? Last edited: Lazaar also claimed that element 115 (Ununpentium) was a stable radioactive element - it is not. I found a possible reason for this, though; The maximum theoretical atomic mass isotope of Element 115 that could be produced in the reaction, above, 115\UUP\291, would only have 176 neutrons in its nucleus. This isotope of Element 115 is shy 8 neutrons from containing the magic number of 184 neutrons. The two actual isotopes of Element 115 produced by this reaction, 115\UUP\288 and 115\UUP\287 contain 173 neutrons, shy 11 neutrons from the magic number of 184, and 172 neutrons, shy 12 neutrons from the magic number of 184, respectively. I also think that a$500 paycheck might come from jantorial duties at A51. If I was a governmental scientist, I'd expect a paycheck bigger than the ones McDonald’s managers receive. :D

One other thing, although I believe flying disks to use nuclear fuel, I don’t feel that UUP has anything to do with “anti-gravity”. It might just be a safer substitute for Plutonium in their RTGs.

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Well, my picture won't be in any of my college year books either. I've never shown up for a picture. So the school has no record at all of him attending?

I don’t think there are any yearbooks in Above Top Secret government facilities...

LOL!

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
aychamo said:
Well, my picture won't be in any of my college year books either. I've never shown up for a picture. So the school has no record at all of him attending?

Correct, there are no records of his attendance. Also, his name would still be included in the yearbook.

Arctic Fox, he allegedly attended Cal Tech long before his so called secret activities.

This is pretty unrelated. But, it is really funny how whenever *anyone* claims to have witnessed anything slightly miraculous, or claims to be anyone even slightly important, that everyone immediately declares them an idiot and to be full of ****.

And yet, so many people blindly believe that Jesus was the son of some god. And that's with less evidence than Robert Lazaar has. Lazaar at least has a paycheck. (Yes, I am without theism.)

If someone said Jesus makes UFOs fly, no one would believe it either. (Religion is based on faith, not evidence. When you know Jesus is the son of God, you don't need evidence to back it up. If you don't understand how that is possible, then you don't understand the word "faith.")

Lazaar's paycheck doesn't corroborate his story, it negates it. Physicists don't get paid $500 per month, or even per week. I'm not trying to defend Lazaar, but he never claimed to work there for a month, or even a week. He said he only went out there a few times, and only for a day at a time those few times.$500 a day is pretty good for a physicsist, yes?

I do understand what faith is, and I indeed have none. Faith is belief without logical reasoning. It's hypocritical for someone to believe that Jesus is the son of some god without proof, and yet not believe other things without proof.

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
aychamo said:
I'm not trying to defend Lazaar, but he never claimed to work there for a month, or even a week. He said he only went out there a few times, and only for a day at a time those few times. $500 a day is pretty good for a physicsist, yes? No. For a Ph.D. working on some limited contract,$500 per day would be very low; about half of what I would expect. Also, if you listen to his stories you will easily account for more than a week of his time on-site. For example, he talks about various tests that happened on Wednesdays. He also talks about being there when no tests took place.

One thing that has always bugged me about Lazar's story is that it does appear that he may have predicted when and where a fairly large group of people could see a "UFO" being tested near Groom Lake. I have seen the video of the "test flight" witnessed and testimony from at least two people who claimed to have been there. Note that I did not say alien spacecraft or flying saucer. All that I saw was a distant light that moved very quickly in large loops over the mountain range.The area from which this was allegedly filmed has been included in the new extended boundaries for A51.

Perhaps this is Lazars legacy? Might he have discovered a place, say by pure chance, from which test flights could be observed by the public?

The next allegation is even weaker. According to the reporter who broke Lazar's story, then, according to a "source" known to have worked at A51, Lazar was able to accurately describe certain physical features about the base - in particular he accurately described the colors and layout of cafeteria and some central areas of the base.

AFAIK, this is the sum of all reason that we have to believe that Lazar secretly worked on alien technology at A51, that he is a Ph.D., that he is a propulsion systems expert who is so brilliant that Edward Teller and the US government personally selected him to work on flying saucers. Also, it seems that after a person like Lazar works on UFOs, strangely, the MIB will erase your past with absolute perfection but you can still make a career of disclosing the most classified information in history on TV a few hundred times.

If Lazar was telling the truth he would be dead.

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He claimed to be a physicsts who worked there, and told how UFOs fly.

On another show, some Russian scientists claimed that UFOs used Nuclear technology. They claim this after studying parts from what they claim to be from a UFO.

jimmy p
Gold Member
What are "gravity waves?" I thought gravity was just a force not part of the EM spectrum. There goes my basic physics knowledge again...

jimmy p said:
What are "gravity waves?" I thought gravity was just a force not part of the EM spectrum. There goes my basic physics knowledge again...

I think there is something about gravity being waves. I think they showed like gravity actually acts at a speed or something.

I found this on another forum:

Bob Lazar was very bizarre
Came up with some crazy ideas
UFO's, Greys and antigravitation
Became the scorn of a cynical nation

Howled at and derided by his peers
Such attention was the sum of all his fears
No real evidence for where he'd been
Not even a sample of element 114

All he said was "take it or leave it"
Sadly no one did truly believe it
In infamy he slipped into anonimity
Ignored as such to the point of infinity

neutroncount
A good number of years ago Testor (the model company) released a kit where you could put a pretty detailed model of the Lazar's "UFO" together. I'd read the stories and figured he was and still is full of it. But that model is just do damn cool. It took me a week to get the painting done (I'm meticulous) and to get everything just right. I don't believe in the guy but it made for a pretty cool model. And my nephew loves it (too bad he broke it)!

jimmy p
Gold Member
aychamo said:
I think there is something about gravity being waves. I think they showed like gravity actually acts at a speed or something.

Is there a link?? I may have missed it.

RE: "I do understand what faith is, and I indeed have none. Faith is belief without logical reasoning. It's hypocritical for someone to believe that Jesus is the son of some god without proof, and yet not believe other things without proof."

Being able to define "faith" is not the same as understanding it. You don't understand faith in God because you are not a Christian. And no one can explain it to you. It would be like understanding love without having experienced it.

Yes, I realize this creates an unfair reasoning advantage for Christians when they argue from a standpoint that by its nature cannot be logically countered. But life isn't fair.

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Lets stay away from religion folks. I realize that is partly a discussion about faith but we need to stay away from any specific religious beliefs.

aychamo said:
Lazaar at least has a paycheck.

Do you mean to argue this as evidence that Lazar worked on UFOs? Why exactly do you make that leap; because some guy on TV said so?

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
aychamo said:
This is pretty unrelated. But, it is really funny how whenever *anyone* claims to have witnessed anything slightly miraculous, or claims to be anyone even slightly important, that everyone immediately declares them an idiot and to be full of ****.

Here we agree. I also think that human experience must be considered in the grand scheme of things. Obviously we can't treat a "story" as scientific evidence but a lack of supporting evidence often does not imply the claim is false.

The problem is that so many claims are false. So, for me the first rule of thumb must be that the more extreme the claim the more likely that it's false. Lazar gives me every reason to follow my rule of thumb. I gave Lazar's story serious consideration, however less a good fish story mixed with some bad physics I find no reason to "believe". I find many reasons to not believe.

I just wanted to note that I am not arguing that Lazaar saw any UFO or anything. I'm saying at least he has some miniscule tiny shred of evidence that he at least worked there for something (even if he just served lunch and cleaned floors.)

I'm curious though, as I am in no means a physicsist, what bad physics did Lazaar give?

neutroncount
Well he doesn't seem to know how the strong nuclear force works for one thing. He claims that the element 115 (not yet discovered here on earth but used by the aliens) is so massive that its "gravity a" wave extends beyond the nucleus of the atom. That gravity wave is then amplified into a gravity b wave and is used to move the ship. He states that we should throw out current gravity theories and accepts his.

Ununpentium has been discovered.

This doesn’t mean Lazaar isn’t full of Burger Slime... :D

I’ll quote myself again for Dagenais’ post:

One other thing, although I believe flying disks to use nuclear fuel, I don’t feel that UUP has anything to do with “anti-gravity”. It might just be a safer substitute for Plutonium in their RTGs.

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus