Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Human migration Indonesia

  1. Nov 18, 2016 #1
    Dear PF Forum,
    It's been a while that I've been wondering.
    Where did people from particular island in Indonesia come from?
    Here is the map

    Human Migration(2).JPG

    As I understand it, homo sapiens came out of Africa 70 thousands years ago, and they went to Australia.
    Is that why that our brothers (and sisters) from Australia look alike our brothers and sisters from Africa?
    And as I see in the map above, the track to Australia passed Indonesia islands. But not all Indonesia people look like Australian people.
    Asia Map(256).JPG

    As I notice in yellow islands. Here the people look like people from China/Japan/Korea/Vietnam
    While people in pink area look like people from Africa.

    So where did the people in yellow area come from? And when were this yellow area inhabited by human?

    And one more thing.
    Homo sapiens sapiens emerged from Africa some 200 thousands years ago.
    And 70 years ago our ancestors came out of Africa.
    And I can see there's a big difference in appearance between the caucasians and the negroids, which is understandable since, if I'm not mistaken, there were cross breeding between homo sapiens and neanderthal.
    But what I'd like to know is the chinese people. (and Japan, and Korea, and Vietnam)
    Where do our brothers and sisters from Chinese come from?
    Are they pure homo sapiens who evolve or there were cross breeding with another homo sapiens species. As in home sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis.

    Thank you very much.
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 18, 2016 #2

    Vanadium 50

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor
    2017 Award

    Your suggestion that the Chinese are not "pure homo sapiens" but some mix of species is racist and repugnant - as well as unsupported by data. You should be deeply ashamed for posting this.
  4. Nov 18, 2016 #3
    Much of south-east asia and polynesia was settled a few Thousand years BC by austronesian peoples coming from south china or taiwan.
    The previous inhabitants remained Only in the highlands of new-Guinea and in Australia.
  5. Nov 18, 2016 #4
    Sorry if I made that impression. I'm NOT a racist. It's just out of curiousity.
    See my post.
    That's why I wrote that post very carefully. But since I heard that last theory (do I have to include a citation here?) that the caucasian interbreed with Neanderthal, then I can accept that some human race might not be pure homo sapiens sapiens, as opposed to your word "pure homo sapiens"
    I think homo sapiens neanderthalensis is pure homo sapiens as well.
  6. Nov 18, 2016 #5


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

  7. Nov 18, 2016 #6
    Yes. I know that. They were from 200 thousands years ago.
    And I can understand why our brother in Australia and Papua look similar to our brother and sister from Africa. But what about our brother and sister from the yellow island in Indonesia? Where did they come from?
    [Add: And I was surprised when I read a phrase some times ago, it seems that neanderthal weren't wiped out by modern human. They didn't make war, they made love. I can give you the citation, but I have to google it. That's the phrase that stucks in my mind]
  8. Nov 18, 2016 #7
    Made love not war
    is in your link :smile:. But to be honest, I forgot whether I knew this phrase from your link or from other links.
  9. Nov 18, 2016 #8

    Vanadium 50

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor
    2017 Award

    Yeah, yeah, I get it. "I'm not a racist - I just say racist things."

    All members of humanity are the same species. Full stop.
  10. Nov 18, 2016 #9


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Ok, this paper:
    seems to review very thoroughly the status of current knowledge on Austronesian ancestry. Look in particular at the 'discussion' section, starting with the paragraph beginning with 'The first stage of Indonesian prehistory'.

    In short, there seems to have been a number of migratory periods in the area.

    Also note all the qualifying statements in the paper - it makes it clear exactly how tenuous some of the hypotheses are.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  11. Nov 18, 2016 #10


    User Avatar
    2017 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    Although I have to admit, that sometimes I wished it wasn't. But this has nothing to do with our looks though ...
  12. Nov 18, 2016 #11
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  13. Nov 18, 2016 #12
    Have you read at least the wiki on Neanderthal as a synopsis.
    There doesn't seem to be a complete agreement on who, what, where, when.

    It does say this,
    And the research continues.
  14. Nov 18, 2016 #13
    Yes. I HAD read about Neanderthal. And here's what I knew before I post this thread.
    - Neanderthalensis were extinct some 40 thousands years ago.
    - Neanderthalensis closely related to modern human (but so did apes?)
    - It's latin name is homo neanderthalensis, although I see some writes homo sapiens neanderthalensis
    - It seems there is homo sapiens sapiens and all I knew since junior high school there's just homo sapiens.
    And some time ago I read a phrase, as the link @Bandersnatch gives me, Neanderthals and modern humans made love not war (John Lennon?).
    But, what I really want to know is, where did the people in some Indonesians archipelago come from.
    Because the migration route from Africa to Australia passed Indonesia archipelago. And Australians aborigines look a lot like people in Africa, but in between, people who live in the island passed by the migration route look like Mongoloid.
    And again @Bandersnatch has gives a useful link to study: http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v58/n3/full/jhg2012154a.html
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  15. Nov 18, 2016 #14
    I just want to make one thing clear. I'm not racist!. It's just that my English, or I didn't think that far, that in asking my question, I uttered inappropriate words!
    And how many times have we been hearing statements like this.
    - Our DNA match 99% of chimp's
    - Y chromosome in Afro American, etc.

    As for this statement, I can explain.
    In high school we, at least I, were taught that human latin name is homo sapiens.
    Now, I read that modern human is homo sapiens sapiens. And there are homo sapiens neanderthalensis.
    And as I just learned that homo sapiens neanderthalensis interbreed with homo sapiens sapiens, is it inappropriate to ask is there another homo sapiens sub species.
    Just googling a while I found homo sapiens idaltu.
    I do hope this clear things up
  16. Nov 18, 2016 #15


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    You are asking a LOT of questions and it would take pages to answer them. I'll give you the 2 cent explanation, anyone is welcome to correct me, I am going off of what I read decades ago. The last I read (disclaimer:new findings are always changing "what we know") that early humans crossed Siberia and some branched into China, Indo-china and due to separation, "genes" they developed slighty different features. Homo sapiens and neanderthals were not the only co-habiting humans, there were also Denosovians http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1974903,00.html, there might be others.

    As groups migrated and broke off into smaller groups certain genetic traits became stronger and appearances changed. This is a very fascinating subject, but not something that can be fully explained in a post. I don't want to get you confused, so that's the very brief answer, groups of migrating humans went off in different directions and developed different appearances.
  17. Nov 18, 2016 #16
    Thank you very much @Evo
    My question is only one:
    Where did the people from this area come from:
    Asia Map(256).JPG
    And my other "questions", I think, it's just my analysis, why I ask that question.
    But thanks again. You and Bandersnatch have made things very clear for me.
    Thank you very much.
  18. Nov 19, 2016 #17
    You know if they have been lucky enough to have ben able to extract any DNA from a find yet, like from the big toe of the Neanderthal, or of any other sub-species?
  19. Nov 19, 2016 #18

    For what it is worth.
    Like I said , research continues.
  20. Nov 19, 2016 #19

    jim mcnamara

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_human_migration

    The maps of human dispersal and migration are now in many places a modern development. Modern being in he past 15 thousand years.
    For what you are asking Austronesian people came first to the area. Next, came subsequent waves from the mainland. And a few Europeans and people from the mid-East.


    Same thing in North America - the first settlers came from Asia thousands of years ago, subsequently lots of Northern Europeans came, who then imported slaves from the West Coast of Africa. So where did current North Americans come from? Answer: Everywhere.

    What I'm saying: you are asking for a distinct general answer when there isn't a good one. Only personal answers. The best answer you can get is to go to someplace like Ancestry.com and submit a sample of saliva. If you have a spouse, then get your spouse to do the same. That will answer your questions. And maybe rock your boat as well. Your family's verbal history may not stand up to what your DNA says.... happened to my wife :smile:
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted