Human migration Indonesia

  • #1
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Main Question or Discussion Point

Dear PF Forum,
It's been a while that I've been wondering.
Where did people from particular island in Indonesia come from?
Here is the map

Human Migration(2).JPG


As I understand it, homo sapiens came out of Africa 70 thousands years ago, and they went to Australia.
Is that why that our brothers (and sisters) from Australia look alike our brothers and sisters from Africa?
And as I see in the map above, the track to Australia passed Indonesia islands. But not all Indonesia people look like Australian people.
Asia Map(256).JPG


As I notice in yellow islands. Here the people look like people from China/Japan/Korea/Vietnam
While people in pink area look like people from Africa.

So where did the people in yellow area come from? And when were this yellow area inhabited by human?

And one more thing.
Homo sapiens sapiens emerged from Africa some 200 thousands years ago.
And 70 years ago our ancestors came out of Africa.
And I can see there's a big difference in appearance between the caucasians and the negroids, which is understandable since, if I'm not mistaken, there were cross breeding between homo sapiens and neanderthal.
But what I'd like to know is the chinese people. (and Japan, and Korea, and Vietnam)
Where do our brothers and sisters from Chinese come from?
Are they pure homo sapiens who evolve or there were cross breeding with another homo sapiens species. As in home sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis.

Thank you very much.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
Vanadium 50
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Your suggestion that the Chinese are not "pure homo sapiens" but some mix of species is racist and repugnant - as well as unsupported by data. You should be deeply ashamed for posting this.
 
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  • #3
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Much of south-east asia and polynesia was settled a few Thousand years BC by austronesian peoples coming from south china or taiwan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples
The previous inhabitants remained Only in the highlands of new-Guinea and in Australia.
 
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  • #4
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Your suggestion that the Chinese are not "pure homo sapiens" but some mix of species is racist and repugnant - as well as unsupported by data. You should be deeply ashamed for posting this.
Sorry if I made that impression. I'm NOT a racist. It's just out of curiousity.
See my post.
Dear PF Forum,...
As I understand it, homo sapiens came out of Africa 70 thousands years ago, and they went to Australia.
Is that why that our brothers (and sisters) from Australia look alike our brothers and sisters from Africa?
That's why I wrote that post very carefully. But since I heard that last theory (do I have to include a citation here?) that the caucasian interbreed with Neanderthal, then I can accept that some human race might not be pure homo sapiens sapiens, as opposed to your word "pure homo sapiens"
I think homo sapiens neanderthalensis is pure homo sapiens as well.
 
  • #6
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See here:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/
The only pure Homo Sapiens are the indigenous peoples of Africa, apparently.
Yes. I know that. They were from 200 thousands years ago.
And I can understand why our brother in Australia and Papua look similar to our brother and sister from Africa. But what about our brother and sister from the yellow island in Indonesia? Where did they come from?
[Add: And I was surprised when I read a phrase some times ago, it seems that neanderthal weren't wiped out by modern human. They didn't make war, they made love. I can give you the citation, but I have to google it. That's the phrase that stucks in my mind]
 
  • #8
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Yeah, yeah, I get it. "I'm not a racist - I just say racist things."

All members of humanity are the same species. Full stop.
 
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  • #9
Bandersnatch
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Ok, this paper:
http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v58/n3/full/jhg2012154a.html
seems to review very thoroughly the status of current knowledge on Austronesian ancestry. Look in particular at the 'discussion' section, starting with the paragraph beginning with 'The first stage of Indonesian prehistory'.

In short, there seems to have been a number of migratory periods in the area.

Also note all the qualifying statements in the paper - it makes it clear exactly how tenuous some of the hypotheses are.
 
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  • #10
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All members of humanity are the same species. Full stop.
Although I have to admit, that sometimes I wished it wasn't. But this has nothing to do with our looks though ...
 
  • #12
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That's why I wrote that post very carefully. But since I heard that last theory (do I have to include a citation here?) that the caucasian interbreed with Neanderthal, then I can accept that some human race might not be pure homo sapiens sapiens, as opposed to your word "pure homo sapiens"
I think homo sapiens neanderthalensis is pure homo sapiens as well.
Have you read at least the wiki on Neanderthal as a synopsis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
There doesn't seem to be a complete agreement on who, what, where, when.

It does say this,
It is suggested that 20 percent of Neanderthal DNA survived in modern humans, notably these of the skin, hair, and diseases of the modern people. [131] Modern human genes involved in making keratin—the protein found in skin, hair, and nails- have specially high levels of Neanderthal DNA.[131] For example, around 66% of East Asians contain the Neanderthal skin gene, while 70% of Europeans contain the Neanderthal gene which affects skin colour. POU2F3 is found in around 66 percent of East Asians, while the Neanderthal version of BNC2, which affects skin color, among other traits, is found in 70 percent of Europeans. Neanderthal are the variants in genes that affect the risk of several diseases, including lupus, biliary cirrhosis, Crohn's disease, and type 2 diabetes. 8% of Neandarthal DNA comes from unknown species, tantalizing hints of unknown groups from Asia and Africa that left genes in Denisovans and modern humans, respectively.[131] [132]17% of the genes of Denisovians and Nenadarthals are shared. According to a research led by an Oxford scientist, it is possible that the gene causing red hair in modern humans is inherited from the Neandarthals, which is up to 100,000 years old, although a different mutation on Nenadarthals was found in the MRC1 gene than on modern humans
And the research continues.
 
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  • #13
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Have you read at least the wiki on Neanderthal as a synopsis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
There doesn't seem to be a complete agreement on who, what, where, when.
Yes. I HAD read about Neanderthal. And here's what I knew before I post this thread.
- Neanderthalensis were extinct some 40 thousands years ago.
- Neanderthalensis closely related to modern human (but so did apes?)
- It's latin name is homo neanderthalensis, although I see some writes homo sapiens neanderthalensis
- It seems there is homo sapiens sapiens and all I knew since junior high school there's just homo sapiens.
And some time ago I read a phrase, as the link @Bandersnatch gives me, Neanderthals and modern humans made love not war (John Lennon?).
But, what I really want to know is, where did the people in some Indonesians archipelago come from.
Because the migration route from Africa to Australia passed Indonesia archipelago. And Australians aborigines look a lot like people in Africa, but in between, people who live in the island passed by the migration route look like Mongoloid.
And again @Bandersnatch has gives a useful link to study: http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v58/n3/full/jhg2012154a.html
And the research continues...
Ok.
 
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  • #14
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Yeah, yeah, I get it. "I'm not a racist - I just say racist things."

All members of humanity are the same species. Full stop.
I just want to make one thing clear. I'm not racist!. It's just that my English, or I didn't think that far, that in asking my question, I uttered inappropriate words!
And how many times have we been hearing statements like this.
- Our DNA match 99% of chimp's
- Y chromosome in Afro American, etc.

Where do our brothers and sisters from Chinese come from?
Are they pure homo sapiens who evolve or there were cross breeding with another homo sapiens species.
As for this statement, I can explain.
In high school we, at least I, were taught that human latin name is homo sapiens.
Now, I read that modern human is homo sapiens sapiens. And there are homo sapiens neanderthalensis.
And as I just learned that homo sapiens neanderthalensis interbreed with homo sapiens sapiens, is it inappropriate to ask is there another homo sapiens sub species.
Just googling a while I found homo sapiens idaltu.
I do hope this clear things up
 
  • #15
Evo
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Dear PF Forum,
It's been a while that I've been wondering.
Where did people from particular island in Indonesia come from?
Here is the map

View attachment 109080

As I understand it, homo sapiens came out of Africa 70 thousands years ago, and they went to Australia.
Is that why that our brothers (and sisters) from Australia look alike our brothers and sisters from Africa?
And as I see in the map above, the track to Australia passed Indonesia islands. But not all Indonesia people look like Australian people.
View attachment 109082

As I notice in yellow islands. Here the people look like people from China/Japan/Korea/Vietnam
While people in pink area look like people from Africa.

So where did the people in yellow area come from? And when were this yellow area inhabited by human?

And one more thing.
Homo sapiens sapiens emerged from Africa some 200 thousands years ago.
And 70 years ago our ancestors came out of Africa.
And I can see there's a big difference in appearance between the caucasians and the negroids, which is understandable since, if I'm not mistaken, there were cross breeding between homo sapiens and neanderthal.
But what I'd like to know is the chinese people. (and Japan, and Korea, and Vietnam)
Where do our brothers and sisters from Chinese come from?
Are they pure homo sapiens who evolve or there were cross breeding with another homo sapiens species. As in home sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis.

Thank you very much.
You are asking a LOT of questions and it would take pages to answer them. I'll give you the 2 cent explanation, anyone is welcome to correct me, I am going off of what I read decades ago. The last I read (disclaimer:new findings are always changing "what we know") that early humans crossed Siberia and some branched into China, Indo-china and due to separation, "genes" they developed slighty different features. Homo sapiens and neanderthals were not the only co-habiting humans, there were also Denosovians http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1974903,00.html, there might be others.

As groups migrated and broke off into smaller groups certain genetic traits became stronger and appearances changed. This is a very fascinating subject, but not something that can be fully explained in a post. I don't want to get you confused, so that's the very brief answer, groups of migrating humans went off in different directions and developed different appearances.
 
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  • #16
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Thank you very much @Evo
My question is only one:
Where did the people from this area come from:
Asia Map(256).JPG

And my other "questions", I think, it's just my analysis, why I ask that question.
But thanks again. You and Bandersnatch have made things very clear for me.
Thank you very much.
 
  • #17
256bits
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Denosovians
You know if they have been lucky enough to have ben able to extract any DNA from a find yet, like from the big toe of the Neanderthal, or of any other sub-species?
 
  • #18
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Ok.
The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of Arabia and Persia until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.[36] Haplogroup M is found in high frequencies along the southern coastal regions of Pakistan and India and it has the greatest diversity in India, indicating that it is here where the mutation may have occurred.[36] Sixty percent of the Indian population belong to Haplogroup M.

The indigenous people of the Andaman Islands also belong to the M lineage. The Andamanese are thought to be offshoots of some of the earliest inhabitants in Asia because of their long isolation from mainland Asia. They are evidence of the coastal route of early settlers that extends from India along the coasts of Thailand and Indonesia all the way to Papua New Guinea. Since M is found in high frequencies in highlanders from New Guinea as well, and both the Andamanese and New Guineans have dark skin and Afro-textured hair, some scientists think they are all part of the same wave of migrants who departed across the Red Sea ~60,000 years ago in the Great Coastal Migration.

From Arabia to India the proportion of haplogroup M increases eastwards: in eastern India, M outnumbers N by a ratio of 3:1. However, crossing over into East Asia, haplogroup N reappears as the dominant lineage. M is predominant in South East Asia but amongst Indigenous Australians N reemerges as the more common lineage. This discontinuous distribution of Haplogroup N from Europe to Australia can be explained by founder effects and population bottlenecks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

For what it is worth.
Like I said , research continues.
 
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  • #19
jim mcnamara
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See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_human_migration

The maps of human dispersal and migration are now in many places a modern development. Modern being in he past 15 thousand years.
For what you are asking Austronesian people came first to the area. Next, came subsequent waves from the mainland. And a few Europeans and people from the mid-East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples

Same thing in North America - the first settlers came from Asia thousands of years ago, subsequently lots of Northern Europeans came, who then imported slaves from the West Coast of Africa. So where did current North Americans come from? Answer: Everywhere.

What I'm saying: you are asking for a distinct general answer when there isn't a good one. Only personal answers. The best answer you can get is to go to someplace like Ancestry.com and submit a sample of saliva. If you have a spouse, then get your spouse to do the same. That will answer your questions. And maybe rock your boat as well. Your family's verbal history may not stand up to what your DNA says.... happened to my wife :smile:
 
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