Hyperbola Transformations in Clapeyron-Mendeleev Coordinates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of isotherm transformations of an ideal gas in Clapeyron-Mendeleev coordinates (pressure-volume coordinates). Participants explore the mathematical properties of hyperbolas and their transformations, questioning the relationship between different forms of hyperbolic equations and graphical representations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that isotherm transformations in Clapeyron-Mendeleev coordinates are represented by hyperbolas, specifically questioning why the equation y=1/x is used to describe this relationship.
  • Another participant poses a question about the result of rotating the curve defined by the equation x^2 - y^2 = 1 by 45 degrees around the origin.
  • A third participant suggests a transformation of coordinates using u=x+y and v=x-y, prompting a discussion about the implications for the curve in these new terms.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the validity of rotating graphs and seeks clarification on the mathematical principles behind such transformations.
  • Another participant emphasizes that a hyperbola is a shape rather than a function, suggesting that the properties of the curve remain consistent regardless of transformations applied to it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mathematical transformations of hyperbolas and their graphical representations. There is no consensus on the clarity of the relationship between the various forms of hyperbolic equations and their transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential limitations in understanding the implications of rotating graphs and the definitions of hyperbolas, as well as the dependence on specific coordinate systems.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying thermodynamics, mathematical transformations, or the graphical representation of equations in physics and engineering contexts.

Iustin Ouatu
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Back in 10th degree, I have learned that in Clapeyron-Mendeleev coordinates ( eq: p-V) , an Isotherm transformation of an ideal gas ( with constant mass throughout the transformation ) is represented with an arc of an hyperbola. Now, I have learned that hyperbola equation is : x2 / a2 - y2/b2 = 1 ( or written in the other way, with y2 as first term ) . This equation , plotted, result in a different type of graphic as I learned on T=constant transformation ! My question is why I used to draw the curbe line graph in p-V coordinates of an equation like y=1/x ? ( as pV= constant ) , saying that it is a hyperbola? What has got to do with an arc of hyperbola? Thank you !
 
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If you have the curve given by ## x^2 - y^2 = 1## and you rotate it 45 degrees around the origin, what do you get?
 
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As a variant of DEvens's post, suppose you define u=x+y and v=x-y. What is the curve in terms of u and v?
 
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Thank you for your responses !
@DEvens :yes, I realized that x^2−y^2=1 shifted by π/4 radians results in my desired part of graph, but... something is not clear in my mind. How can I assume that I can rotate the graph and still get something mathematically valid? There's something not clear in my mind...
@robphy : in terms of u and v, u*v = x^2-y^2 =constant =1 , as in a normal isotherm. But from the (x,y) coordinates , I can define a new system of coordinates, given by (x+y, x-y ) ? Just like when I shift by π/4 radians the normal hyperbola graph?
 
A hyperbola is shape, not a function.
Focus on the curve, and forget about the axes.

Drawn on a piece of paper, that curve is a hyperbola... no matter how you slide, reflect, or rotate the piece of paper.
 
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