I don't understand the derivation of the wave equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the wave equation, specifically focusing on the forces acting on a piece of string and the role of torque in this context. Participants explore the balance of forces, the implications of small angles, and the nature of the string as a non-rigid body.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the net force along the y-axis, represented as T sin(θ2) - T sin(θ1), is equal to ma, where a is the acceleration of the string piece along the y-axis.
  • Others argue that the forces acting on the string do not create a torque because they do not satisfy the conditions of a couple, as the forces are not oppositely directed.
  • It is noted that the angle is assumed to be very small, allowing the sine of the angle to be approximated as dy/dx, and that the bending rigidity of the string is considered negligible.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about estimating the torque on the string, relying on intuition rather than a mathematical approach.
  • There is a discussion about the string not being a rigid body, which implies it does not need to satisfy a moment balance.
  • One participant clarifies that the vertical components of the net force must equal the mass times the acceleration in the y direction, referencing Newton's Second Law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the role of torque in the context of the string's motion, with multiple competing views on whether torque is relevant or necessary in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the estimation of torque and the implications of the string's non-rigid nature, indicating a lack of clarity on how these factors influence the overall analysis.

Clara Chung
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If there is a net force along the y-axis, i.e. T sin(θ2) - T sin(θ1)
Why is it equals to ma, where a is the acceleration of the piece of string along the y-axis? Shouldn't there be a torque so the piece of string rotates?
Sorry for sounding stupid.
 

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Clara Chung said:
Shouldn't there be a torque so the piece of string rotates?
I take it that you think of resultant force as a torque, because the two forces appear to act as a couple. By definition A couple is a pair of forces, equal in magnitude, oppositely directed, and displaced by perpendicular distance or moment. In this case the forces are equal(considering the infinitesimal element), are displaced by (almost)perpendicular distance but not oppositely directed. Hence the resultant is a force along some particular direction.

Now the question is: what is this resultant force? And that is given by:
Clara Chung said:
there is a net force along the y-axis, i.e. T sin(θ2) - T sin(θ1)
I hope that you understand why there's no net force along the x axis.
 
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The angle is supposed to be very small so that the sine of the angle is equal to dy/dx. The force balance is in the y direction, and includes the translational inertia. The bending rigidity of the string is considered negligible. What do you estimate for the torque on each section of string?
 
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Chestermiller said:
The angle is supposed to be very small so that the sine of the angle is equal to dy/dx. The force balance is in the y direction, and includes the translational inertia. The bending rigidity of the string is considered negligible. What do you estimate for the torque on each section of string?
I don't know how to estimate the torque. I just think that there is a torque by intuition.
 
Clara Chung said:
I don't know how to estimate the torque. I just think that there is a torque by intuition.
The string is not a rigid body, so it doesn’t have to satisfy a moment balance.
 
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Chestermiller said:
The string is not a rigid body, so it doesn’t have to satisfy a moment balance.
Besides, for any short section of string, if you take moments of the tensile forces st its ends about its center of mass, they cancel.
 
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Clara Chung said:
View attachment 218472
Why is it equals to ma, where a is the acceleration of the piece of string along the y-axis?
What do mean by "it"? What do you want "it" to be besides the acceleration of the center of mass of the piece of string along the y-axis? Are you asking about the acceleration vector for the center of mass of the piece of string? - and asking why its only nonzero component is along the y-axis?
 
Clara Chung said:
If there is a net force along the y-axis, i.e. T sin(θ2) - T sin(θ1)
Why is it equals to ma, where a is the acceleration of the piece of string along the y-axis?

That follows directly from Newton's Second Law, ##\vec{F}_{net}=m \vec{a}##. The vertical components of those vectors must also be equal: ##F_{net,y}=ma_y##.

Shouldn't there be a torque so the piece of string rotates?

Whether there is or not has no bearing on the above.
 

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