B I have a basic question about energy :)

[Khal N]

Hello!

I am sorry if i have the wrong forum, i am not physics guy (i sell shoes). But i can't find anyone to answer my question, so i figured id try here. Please bear with me :)

If you can get radiation from heat, does that mean, theoretically, if i could rub my hands quick enough, i could generate gamma radiation?

my question is really if there only is one kind of energy, and whereas they say there are seven kinds of energy (sometimes more) i also get the impression theyre all the same, but I am a shoe salesman at heart, so its hard to say.

Thank you!

 

[HallsofIvy]

It's not a matter or "getting radiation from heat" but rather that infrared radiation is a form of heat. So, no, rubbing your hands together, or any other way of producing heat produces infrared radiation, not gamma radiation.

 

[Khal N]

oh, i thought about it backwards, ok, thank you!

 

[PeroK]

Hello!

I am sorry if i have the wrong forum, i am not physics guy (i sell shoes). But i can't find anyone to answer my question, so i figured id try here. Please bear with me :)

If you can get radiation from heat, does that mean, theoretically, if i could rub my hands quick enough, i could generate gamma radiation?

my question is really if there only is one kind of energy, and whereas they say there are seven kinds of energy (sometimes more) i also get the impression theyre all the same, but I am a shoe salesman at heart, so its hard to say.

Thank you!

Re gamma ray production:

https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/toolbox/gamma_generation.html

Re "what is energy?":

 

[Khal N]

It's not a matter or "getting radiation from heat" but rather that infrared radiation is a form of heat. So, no, rubbing your hands together, or any other way of producing heat produces infrared radiation, not gamma radiation.

what about an exercise bike hooked up to a battery that powers a machine that makes radiation, then i could theoretiacally bike hard enough and make gamma radiation?

 

[Orodruin]

Gamma radiation has an energy of above 100 keV per photon. If you want to produce this thermally you would need to heat something up to about $10^9$ Kelvin. At that temperature, your bike is probably not a bike any more. So no, there is no practical way of making gamma radiation by heating something up and gamma radiation is better made using non-thermal processes.

 

[Khal N]

Gamma radiation has an energy of above 100 keV per photon. If you want to produce this thermally you would need to heat something up to about $10^9$ Kelvin. At that temperature, your bike is probably not a bike any more. So no, there is no practical way of making gamma radiation by heating something up and gamma radiation is better made using non-thermal processes.

ok, i understand, i ask because i thought there were all kinds of different energies, and they were different from each other, like compatibility between mac and pc kind of thing, so this is a revelation for me. thank you!

 

[mfb]

It is all electromagnetic radiation and there is no hard border between gamma rays, x-rays, UV, visible light and so on. The names are just convention. Theoretically your bike has a non-zero chance to emit a gamma photon from thermal processes, in practice the chance is so utterly negligible that it will never happen. Even if you convert the whole observable universe to bikes and run them for 10¹⁰⁰ times the age of the universe.

 

[DEvens]

Gamma rays are photons of energy from kilo-electron volt to about 8 MeV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray

If you could rub your hands together at something like 10% the speed of light, maybe you could get gamma rays out of it. That would give the protons in the water in your hands enough kinetic energy to produce photons of that energy. Your hands would suffer.

 

[sysprog]

You can produce x-rays by peeling cellophane tape from a reel in a vacuum:

 

[mfb]

You can produce x-rays by peeling cellophane tape from a reel in a vacuum:

This is not thermal production, however.

 

[sysprog]

This is not thermal production, however.

That's true -- I interpreted @Khal N's inquiry more generally, as he had made reference to "different kinds of energy", and to high-energy (gamma) EMR -- I thought he might find the
sticky tape x-ray video to be entertaining or informative or both.

 

[Khal N]

Gamma rays are photons of energy from kilo-electron volt to about 8 MeV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray

If you could rub your hands together at something like 10% the speed of light, maybe you could get gamma rays out of it. That would give the protons in the water in your hands enough kinetic energy to produce photons of that energy. Your hands would suffer.

so it is possible! holy hell. i understand its not practically possible, I am asking if its hypothetitically possible is all.

protons would create photons at that speed, it really does stagger the mind.

:)

That's true -- I interpreted @Khal N's inquiry more generally, as he had made reference to "different kinds of energy", and to high-energy (gamma) EMR -- I thought he might find the
sticky tape x-ray video to be entertaining or informative or both.

absolutely, i find that video fascinating!

 

[Dale]

Gamma radiation has an energy of above 100 keV per photon. If you want to produce this thermally you would need to heat something up to about $10^9$ Kelvin. At that temperature, your bike is probably not a bike any more. So no, there is no practical way of making gamma radiation by heating something up and gamma radiation is better made using non-thermal processes.

But there are astronomical processes that are essentially thermal which produce gamma radiation.

 

[Orodruin]

But there are astronomical processes that are essentially thermal which produce gamma radiation.

We have a professor in my department working on that (GRBs). As a matter of coincidence he presented his research at the group meeting last Friday. From what I could gather, there is some discussion in the community where in the GRB the gamma radiation actually originates and the processes would be different depending on that. The work of his PhD student seems to indicate that the gamma rays are indeed produced essentially thermally.

 

[Dale]

And you are definitely not going to produce gamma ray burst temperatures rubbing your hands together!

 

[Khal N]

Gamma rays are photons of energy from kilo-electron volt to about 8 MeV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray

If you could rub your hands together at something like 10% the speed of light, maybe you could get gamma rays out of it. That would give the protons in the water in your hands enough kinetic energy to produce photons of that energy. Your hands would suffer.

what does the above do to the below? so the below isn't correct then, turns out is the above that's correct?

It's not a matter or "getting radiation from heat" but rather that infrared radiation is a form of heat. So, no, rubbing your hands together, or any other way of producing heat produces infrared radiation, not gamma radiation.

 

[Ibix]

I think we can say that sufficiently hot matter emits gamma radiation in the way you routinely emit heat. However, the temperatures needed are far beyond anything you could produce by rubbing your hands - they'll disintegrate long before. A piece of metal hot enough to emit in the visible will burn you badly, and that's not even close to being in the same league as the kind of energies @Orodruin is talking about.

 

[Orodruin]

From what I could gather, there is some discussion in the community where in the GRB the gamma radiation actually originates and the processes would be different depending on that. The work of his PhD student seems to indicate that the gamma rays are indeed produced essentially thermally.

And, to give proper reference, this is their latest paper https://arxiv.org/abs/1906.01318 https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/487/4/5508/5491301

 

[Khal N]

i just want to clarify, the rub your hands thing is hypothetical :)

 

[DEvens]

i just want to clarify, the rub your hands thing is hypothetical :)

Unless you are talking Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris clapping is the real source of GRBs.

 

[Khal N]

Unless you are talking Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris clapping is the real source of GRBs.

GRB is gamma radiation bursts, i see. chuck norris must be pretty intense

 

[gmax137]

chuck norris must be pretty intense

Google chuck norris meme

See also, here
EDIT:
here's the long thread
longer thread

There are more such threads on PF

 

[Khal N]

Google chuck norris meme

See also, here
EDIT:
here's the long thread
longer thread

There are more such threads on PF

i read the first page in the first thread, its really funny :)

i remember the chuck norris thing but I've never seen it with math,

i meant to make GRB he would have to be pretty intense, but he clearly is haha

 

[russ_watters]

what does the above do to the below? so the below isn't correct then, turns out is the above that's correct?

yeah, I'm not a fan of the "below" wording. Calling infrared "radiated heat" or some variation of that is basically a colloquialism and is not accurate. Radiated heat/thermal radiation is definitely not limited to infrared.

 

[PeroK]

Unless you are talking Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris clapping is the real source of GRBs.

Well, at least I learned something today. Now I know who Chuck Norris is!

 

[mfb]

yeah, I'm not a fan of the "below" wording. Calling infrared "radiated heat" or some variation of that is basically a colloquialism and is not accurate. Radiated heat/thermal radiation is definitely not limited to infrared.

Well, it's thermal energy leaving the object, most likely transferring heat to some other object. That thermal radiation can be in other wavelength ranges is independent of that.

Chuck Norris = CN = Cosmogenic nuclide - produced by gamma rays [/size]among other processes. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[russ_watters]

Well, it's thermal energy leaving the object, most likely transferring heat to some other object. That thermal radiation can be in other wavelength ranges is independent of that.

Yes - it was the statement that it can only be infrared that I disagreed with.