Ideal Gas Equation: Deriving pV=Nm<c>^2/3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the ideal gas equation \( pV = \frac{Nm^{2}}{3} \) using a gas molecule in a cube-shaped container. Participants seek clarity on the derivation process and its applicability to different container shapes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a detailed derivation of the ideal gas equation, indicating that the existing resources are unclear.
  • Others suggest looking for online resources, such as Wikipedia, for the kinetic theory of gases.
  • Some participants assert that the shape of the container does not affect the validity of the equation, emphasizing that the derivation can be performed for any container shape.
  • It is proposed that the equation can be reformulated to \( P = nm^{2}/3 \) to apply to any size container, where \( n \) is the number density of molecules.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definitions of terms used in the equation, noting that different authors may use terms differently, particularly \( c \) and \( p \).
  • Participants discuss the need for clear definitions of variables to avoid confusion in the derivation process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the clarity of the derivation process, and multiple views exist regarding the definitions of terms and the applicability of the equation to various container shapes.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of terms used in the equation, which may vary among different authors. There is also a lack of agreement on the clarity of the derivation provided in existing resources.

PFuser1232
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I need a detailed derivation of why pV = \frac{Nm&lt;c&gt;^{2}}{3}for an ideal gas using the example of a gas molecule placed in a cube-shaped container, the derivation in my book isn't that clear.^{}
 
Last edited:
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Have you tried to google for "derivation of ideal gas equation"?
 
Or if that doesn't help, maybe you could tell us about the derivation in your book (or better yet, give us a link to it if you find it somewhere online) and describe to us what you find unclear about it. Then maybe someone can get you un-stuck.
 
Try:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_theory

The shape of the container is irrelevant, but I think you need more than one molecule.
 
Last edited:
klimatos said:
Try:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_theory

The shape of the container is irrelevant, but I think you need more than one molecule.


So, is the equation valid for any container of any shape?
 
Yes. It is easier to derive for a simple container, but turns out it works for every container.

Note that you can always select an imaginary cube INSIDE gas, and assume - as everything around is identical to the gas inside the selected volume - that for every molecule leaving the imaginary cube, one identical molecule enters the cube. This is equivalent to the molecules bouncing on the cube walls, which is part of assumptions required when deriving the equation. And as every dV inside of the volume of gas behaves the same way, equation holds also for whole V.
 
MohammedRady97 said:
So, is the equation valid for any container of any shape?

Yes, although your original post uses V which I assume is the volume of one mole at the specified pressuire and N which I assume is Avogadro's number. To apply to any size container, that specification has to be changed.

Since N/V = n, where n is the number density of molecules per unit volume, the equation becomes
P = nm<c>2/3. This would apply to any shape and size of macroscopic container.

It would help a lot if you would define the terms used in the OP. Not all authors use the same common terms in the same way. For instance, the term c is often used to designate the speed of light in a vacuum, and p is often used to designate momentum.
 
klimatos said:
Yes, although your original post uses V which I assume is the volume of one mole at the specified pressuire and N which I assume is Avogadro's number. To apply to any size container, that specification has to be changed.

Since N/V = n, where n is the number density of molecules per unit volume, the equation becomes
P = nm<c>2/3. This would apply to any shape and size of macroscopic container.

It would help a lot if you would define the terms used in the OP. Not all authors use the same common terms in the same way. For instance, the term c is often used to designate the speed of light in a vacuum, and p is often used to designate momentum.

Actually N is the number of molecules, N_A is avogadro's constant, p is pressure, n is the amount in moles, and V is the total volume of the container.
 

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