Identities for covariant derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the covariant derivative in spherical coordinates within flat 3D space. Participants explore the correct formulation of the gradient of a scalar function and the divergence of a vector field, addressing the necessary connection coefficients and the implications of coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant considers the covariant derivative of a vector field and notes discrepancies in the expected factors when calculating the divergence, suggesting a potential mix-up in coordinate systems.
  • Another participant provides the non-zero connection coefficients relevant to the calculations, indicating a methodical approach using Mathematica.
  • There is a discussion about the gradient of a scalar function, with one participant asserting that it reduces to the ordinary partial derivative, while others question the origin of the prefactors in the gradient expression.
  • A participant realizes that their basis vectors are not the unit vectors typically used in the familiar gradient formula, leading to the identification of missing factors in their calculations.
  • One participant notes that the correct result for the Laplacian was obtained despite earlier issues, suggesting that the nature of the Laplacian may not require the same considerations as the divergence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the gradient and divergence in spherical coordinates, with some acknowledging errors in their approaches while others seek clarification on the underlying principles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific factors involved in the covariant derivative calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the dependence on the metric induced by the flat metric and the implications of using different coordinate systems. There are unresolved mathematical steps related to the application of connection coefficients and the derivation of expressions for divergence and gradient.

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Hi.

I'm considering the covariant derivative
\nabla_\mu V^\nu = \partial_\mu V^\nu + \Gamma_{\mu\nu}^\lambda V^\lambda
in spherical coordinates in flat 3D space (x = r cos sin, y = r sin sin, z = r cos; usual stuff).

Now I wrote down the gradient of a scalar function f, for which I got \nabla_\mu f = \partial_\mu f (having constructed the derivative to reduce to the ordinary partial derivative on scalars) which is of course not correct, it should be something like
\partial_r f, \frac{1}{r} \partial_\theta f \text{ and } \frac{1}{r \sin\theta} \partial_\phi f for the three components.

Same when I try to derive an expression for the divergence of a vector field, and then I need to show that it is the same as the familiar
\frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial r} (r^2 V^1) + \frac{1}{r \sin\theta} \frac{\partial}{\partial\theta} (\sin\theta V^2) + \frac{1}{r \sin\theta} \frac{\partial V^3}{\partial \phi}
Of course,
\nabla_\mu V^\nu = \partial_\mu V^\mu + \Gamma_{\mu\mu}^\nu V^\nu
(that must be correct) but if plug in the connection coefficients I calculated, I get an otherwise correct result, except there are some factors 1/r and 1/r sin theta missing.

I have a feeling I'm mixing up my coordinate systems here, but how?

I did get the right result for the Laplacian \nabla^2 f by the way ... isn't that odd?
 
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Can you show some of your calculations?
 
The one for the gradient seems clear.
For the divergence:

Non-zero connection coefficients are
<br /> \begin{array}{rcl}<br /> \Gamma^\phi_{r \phi} =<br /> \Gamma^\phi_{\phi r} &amp;=&amp; \frac{1}{r} \\<br /> \Gamma^r_{\theta\theta} &amp;=&amp; -r \\<br /> \Gamma^\theta_{\phi\phi} &amp;=&amp; -\sin\theta \cos\theta \\<br /> \Gamma^\theta_{r \theta} =<br /> \Gamma^\theta_{\theta r} &amp;=&amp; \frac{1}{r} \\<br /> \Gamma^r_{\phi\phi} &amp;=&amp; -r \sin^2 \theta \\<br /> \Gamma^\phi_{\theta\phi} =<br /> \Gamma^\phi_{\phi\theta} &amp;=&amp; \tan^{-1} \theta \\<br /> \end{array}<br />

Then I did (just filling in, I used Mathematica - forgive me for sinning :smile:) \partial_\mu V^\mu + \Gamma_{\mu\nu}^\mu V^{\nu} where V^\mu(r, \theta, \phi) are the components of the vector field.
This gave me
\frac{2 V^1(r,\theta ,\phi )}{r}+\cot (\theta ) V^2(r,\theta ,\phi )+ \partial_\phi V^3(r,\theta ,\phi )+\partial_\theta V^2{}(r,\theta ,\phi )+\partial_r V^1(r,\theta,\phi )
which should be
\frac{2 V^1(r,\theta ,\phi )}{r}+\frac{\cot (\theta ) V^2(r,\theta ,\phi )}{r}+\frac{\csc (\theta ) \partial_\phi V^3(r,\theta ,\phi<br /> )}{r}+\frac{V^2(r,\theta ,\phi )}{r}+\partial_rV^1(r,\theta ,\phi )
Quite straightforward in principle, but wrong answer in practice.
 
Last edited:
But perhaps you can first explain it for the gradient, as that's the basic case. I get
\nabla_\mu f = \partial_\mu f
for \mu = r, \theta, \phi. Where do the prefactors (1, 1/r, 1/r sin\theta) come from?

Normally, you would find them by taking partials of x, y, z w.r.t. r, theta, phi. But in this case, I don't think x, y and z are even involved, since we just have a coordinate chart with coordinates r, theta, phi and a metric (which is induced by the flat metric, but we might as well have just defined it as it is).

And I am also curious why my approach - which is obviously wrong in some way - does give the right result for the Laplacian operator.
 
OK, the problem was of course that my basis vectors (1, 0, 0), (0, 1, 0) and (0, 0, 1) are not the unit vectors that are in the familiar formula for the gradient.
Calculating the length of the basis vectors by multiplying by the metric diag(1, r^2, (r sin theta)^2) gives exactly the factors I was missing.

For the Laplacian, we plug in a scalar and get a scalar back, so this is not necessary, therefore I got the correct result.

Going to try if this solves my problem with the divergence as well now.
 

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