If i use a certain amount of energy/work - lets say 0,36 J - to wind

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of using energy to wind up an old alarm clock, specifically whether this process results in an increase in the mass of the clock or if it simply generates heat. The scope includes conceptual exploration of energy storage in mechanical systems and the implications for mass and temperature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that winding the clock with 0.36 J of energy may increase the effective mass of the system due to the potential energy stored in the springs.
  • Another participant questions whether the mass of the spring would actually increase or if it would just become hotter and denser without a change in weight.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that while the size of the spring does not increase, the mass of the system would increase, referencing the concept of bound systems in atomic nuclei.
  • One participant emphasizes that mass is a property of matter and cannot simply become hotter and denser without an increase in weight.
  • Several participants express confusion about the relationship between energy, mass, and temperature, indicating a need for further clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the mass of the clock increases as a result of winding it. Some assert that the mass increases, while others question this conclusion, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of mass and energy in this context, as well as the specifics of how energy is transformed within the mechanical system of the clock.

johann1301
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If i use a certain amount of energy/work - let's say 0,36 J - to wind up an old alarm clock, will the mass of the clock increase, or will the clock just get hotter somehow?
 
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Good question. In general, it depends on the particulars of the situation. In the case of an alarm clock, there is generally a system of springs which stores the energy and potential energy---which would increase the effective mass of the system. At the same time, energy is always lost to heat (especially the bearing, and the spring's metal).
 


I would think that the mass in the spring would get hotter and denser, but not bigger? Would it really weigh more than before?
 


It doesn't get any 'bigger' in size; but yes, the mass of the system would increase. This is a measurable effect in atomic nuclei where the total mass is larger for a bound system than for the constituent parts alone (same idea of potential energy being stored in the system).
 


johann1301 said:
I would think that the mass in the spring would get hotter and denser, but not bigger? Would it really weigh more than before?

Mass is a property of matter, it cannot get hotter and denser itself. If you increase the mass of something it will weigh more than it did before.
 


Can somebody explain this please- I'm now a little confused.
 


Dreamer350 said:
Can somebody explain this please- I'm now a little confused.

What are you confused about?
 

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