If photons have no mass, then how can they travel the speed of light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how photons, which are said to have no mass, can travel at the speed of light. Participants explore concepts related to energy, momentum, and the implications of mass in the context of physics, touching on both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that photons can travel at the speed of light precisely because they have no mass, specifically no rest mass.
  • There is a discussion about the energy of photons, with some arguing that it is related to their wavelength rather than kinetic energy as traditionally defined.
  • One participant proposes that the energy of a photon can be described using the equation E=pc, where p is momentum, indicating that all energy comes from motion.
  • Another participant emphasizes that Newton's laws are not applicable to massless photons, suggesting that momentum, rather than mass, is what allows photons to move.
  • Some participants express confusion about the relationship between mass, energy, and momentum, particularly in the context of Newtonian physics versus relativistic physics.
  • A later reply questions the validity of applying Newtonian physics to photons, stating that Newton's laws are approximations that do not hold at the speed of light.
  • There is mention of the complexity and ongoing mystery surrounding the concept of mass in physics, with references to philosophical perspectives on the nature of mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between mass, energy, and momentum as it pertains to photons. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the applicability of Newtonian physics to massless particles.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their understanding of calculus and advanced physics concepts, which may influence their interpretations of the discussions surrounding mass and energy equations.

  • #31
DaveC426913 said:
This is all theoretical physics.

I think what you're asking is "where do we discuss speculative physics on this message board?"

To which the answer is: ''on some other board".

:biggrin:

PF is devoted to established, mainstream physics.

Well, that sucks. But then again, it means I can both giveth and receiveth all the standard answers about what doesn't really work. I've gotten a lot of standard miles closing one eye, squinting through the other, and relaying what I see.
 
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  • #32
Hi Phrak! :smile:
Phrak said:
I've gotten a lot of standard miles closing one eye, squinting through the other, and relaying what I see.

Technically, you can't squint with one eye shut …

squinting is when the two eyes point in different directions … see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabismus" :wink:
 
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  • #33
tiny-tim said:
Hi Phrak! :smile:


Technically, you can't squint with one eye shut …

squinting is when the two eyes point in different directions … see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabismus" :wink:

/ Squints with one eye at Tiny across the pond. /
 
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  • #34
JMS61 said:
Just out of curiosity, how do we know that a photon does not have any rest mass? Yes a rest mass is not necessary to study it's behavior, but does that mean that it does not have any rest mass?

Astronomical observations only pose an upper bound of currently 2 10^{-25} eV (approx. 3.6 10^{-61} kg) on the photon mass, but all known experimental data seem to be in agreement with the assumption that the mass of the photon is exactly zero, as in the standard model.

See the entry ''Is the photon necessarily massless?'' in Chapter B2 of my theoretical physics FAQ at http://arnold-neumaier.at/physfaq/physics-faq.html#photon
 

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