If speed of light isn't a constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a variable speed of light, particularly in relation to the Michelson-Morley experiment. Participants explore how such a variation could affect modern physical laws, the formation of atoms, and the nature of space-time from a physicist's perspective.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the speed of light varies with the reference frame, it would leave the transformation laws of the electromagnetic field unexplained.
  • Others argue that a variable speed of light could imply that atoms would not form, leading to no life or matter, except possibly subatomic particles.
  • A participant questions the connection between the speed of light and atom formation, prompting further elaboration on electromagnetic radiation's role in atomic structure.
  • One participant suggests that if the speed of light varied, it could lead to changes in how electromagnetic fields behave, affecting electron positioning.
  • Another viewpoint discusses the relativity of measuring distances and time, suggesting that variations in the speed of light could be interpreted as changes in measuring rods or clocks rather than the speed itself.
  • A later reply mentions Einstein's General Relativity as a framework that could incorporate varying light speeds through gravitational effects on space-time geometry.
  • There is a suggestion that the speed of light's constancy is a convention that could be reconsidered if other fundamental constants vary over time and space.
  • A follow-up post references a paper discussing weak-field gravity as if it were a refractive medium, linking the concept of the index of refraction to the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the implications of a variable speed of light, and the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on definitions of distance and time, as well as the unresolved nature of how fundamental constants might vary, which complicates the discussion.

sganesh88
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If speed of light varies with the reference frame, as the michelson-morley experiment wanted to show, what influence would it have on the modern physical laws? How would the universe look like from a physicist's point of view then?

P.S: If this question had already been asked and discussed in detail, could some knowledgeable folks guide me there? The search tool in physicsforums isn't that good, i feel.
 
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sganesh88 said:
If speed of light varies with the reference frame, as the michelson-morley experiment wanted to show, what influence would it have on the modern physical laws? How would the universe look like from a physicist's point of view then?

Hi sganesh88! :smile:

It would leave the transformation laws (between the coordinates of one inertial observer and another) of the electromagnetic field unexplained …

they were correctly determined in the nineteenth century, and they were inconsistent with Newtonian space-time.
 
You would not be here...atoms would not form...no life...no matter except maybe subatomic particles...
 
Naty1 said:
You would not be here...atoms would not form...no life...no matter except maybe subatomic particles...

Can you elaborate? What does speed of light have to do with atom formation?
 
Can you elaborate? What does speed of light have to do with atom formation?

Light is electromagnetic radiation. If it's speed varied electromagnetic fields would pulse with as velocity changed...electrons would not know where they were supposed to be...

For other insights try Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light
These are views different from the likely intent of your question...but raise all sorts of insights as well as further questions.
 
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Remember that the speed of light we measure is a ratio of a distance traveled and a time duration. If one person claims this ratio varies then another can claim that, No it is distances and/or time which is being stretched and/or bent. So imagine a theory which allows the bending of space-time geometry and it already incorporates the variation of the measured values of the speed of light with respect to stretchable measuring rods and variable clocks because it is all relative as to whether you say your measuring rod stretched or light slowed down.

[edit: I forgot to mention that Einstein's General Relativity is such a theory and so it recasts varying speed of light as gravitational bending of space-time. You could also do the reverse and model the bending of light via gravity as refraction due to varying speed of light. I'm not sure how far this can be pushed. But as I recall you can view the varying metric of GR as a tensor expressing varying light speeds in various directions, in short view part of [itex]g_{\mu\nu}[/itex] an index of refraction tensor. This is all "off the cuff" and I'll think about it some more and post corrections later.]

The only other issue is whether you can define distances or time intervals independently of light i.e. by considering scales of fundamental non-photonic processes like nuclear decay electron mass, etc. Again there is a relativity here. Is light slowing down or is the charge/mass ratio of the electron changing thereby affecting the lengths of physical measuring rods?

It is the current convention to hold the speed of light in a vacuum as a numerical constant and use that constant to define lengths in terms of durations. We may then speculate as to whether, with this convention, the other fundamental constants vary over time and space.
 
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Followup: Here's a paper treating weak-field gravity as if a refractive medium.http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0411034"

Recall that the index of refraction is 1/speed of light in the medium. And the refractive-index tensor is used for an anisotropic medium (speed of light is different in different directions).
 
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