Impact of rolling sphere with vertical rod

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a uniform sphere of mass ##m## and radius ##r##, rolling without slipping, that collides with a vertical rod of length ##l## and mass ##10m##. The task is to analyze the motion of both the sphere and the rod after the impact, considering the conditions of a perfectly elastic collision and the effects of friction.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conservation of angular momentum and energy, noting potential inconsistencies in the equations derived. Some express uncertainty about the effects of the collision on the sphere's spin and the assumptions made regarding torque and angular momentum.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the equations governing the system, with some participants providing insights into the conservation laws and the implications of the collision. Questions remain about the assumptions regarding the sphere's spin and the transition to pure rolling motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the omission of the rotational energy of the sphere in the energy equation, which is a point of confusion. There are also discussions about the signs in the equations of motion and the implications for the direction of forces and velocities after the collision.

sergiokapone
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Homework Statement


Uniform sphere of mass ##m## and radius ##r##, rolling without slipping on a horizontal surface at a velocity ##v_0##, hits the end of a rod of length ##l## and mass ##10m##, hanging on a hinge (Figure). Determine how the ball will move and the rod after the impact. What time after, the motion of the ball goes into pure rolling? What is the speed of the roller? An impact is perfectly elastic and instantaneous. The coefficient of friction of the ball on the plane is ##k##. Rolling friction neglected.

1dd8756cdc1aace34b4affd59b383609.jpg

Homework Equations



Eqs of conservations:
Angular momentun: ##mv_0l=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\omega-mvl##
Energy: ##\underbrace{\dfrac{mv_0^2}{2}+\dfrac{2}{5}mr^2\dfrac{v_0^2}{2r^2}}_{\dfrac{7mv_0^2}{10}}=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\dfrac{\omega^2}{2}+\dfrac{mv^2}{2}##

The Attempt at a Solution


I feel that I made a conceptual error in the conservation laws, but I do not know where.
 
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sergiokapone said:
Eqs of conservations:
Angular momentun: ##mv_0l=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\omega-mvl##
Energy: ##\underbrace{\dfrac{mv_0^2}{2}+\dfrac{2}{5}mr^2\dfrac{v_0^2}{2r^2}}_{\dfrac{7mv_0^2}{10}}=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\dfrac{\omega^2}{2}+\dfrac{mv^2}{2}##

I think I understand. The system of two equations is inconsistent. But if we assume that the sphere after being hit does not lose its spin moment, then everything works:
##
\begin{equation}
\left\{
\begin{array}
\ mv_0l =\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\omega &- mvl \\
\dfrac{mv_0^2}{2} =\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\dfrac{\omega^2}{2} &+ \dfrac{mv^2}{2}
\end{array}
\right.
\end{equation}\text{ without loss of spin angular momentum}
##

Then, we have
##v=\dfrac{7}{13}v_0##, ##\omega=\dfrac{6}{13} \dfrac{v_0}{l}##

But why the sphere does not stop spinning?
 
sergiokapone said:

Homework Statement


Uniform sphere of mass ##m## and radius ##r##, rolling without slipping on a horizontal surface at a velocity ##v_0##, hits the end of a rod of length ##l## and mass ##10m##, hanging on a hinge (Figure). Determine how the ball will move and the rod after the impact. What time after, the motion of the ball goes into pure rolling? What is the speed of the roller? An impact is perfectly elastic and instantaneous. The coefficient of friction of the ball on the plane is ##k##. Rolling friction neglected.

1dd8756cdc1aace34b4affd59b383609.jpg



Homework Equations



Eqs of conservations:
Angular momentun: ##mv_0l=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\omega-mvl##
Energy: ##\underbrace{\dfrac{mv_0^2}{2}+\dfrac{2}{5}mr^2\dfrac{v_0^2}{2r^2}}_{\dfrac{7mv_0^2}{10}}=\dfrac{10ml^2}{3}\dfrac{\omega^2}{2}+\dfrac{mv^2}{2}+?##

The Attempt at a Solution


I feel that I made a conceptual error in the conservation laws, but I do not know where.

You omitted the rotational energy of the ball from the energy equation.

ehild
 
ehild said:
You omitted the rotational energy of the ball from the energy equation.

ehild

Yes, exactly! Thank you.
 
sergiokapone said:
Then, we have
##v=\dfrac{7}{13}v_0##, ##\omega=\dfrac{6}{13} \dfrac{v_0}{l}##

But why the sphere does not stop spinning?

The rod hits the ball at the height of its centre. So the rod does not exert torque about the centre of the ball. No torque, no change of angular momentum. (The force of friction is finite, it does not have effect on angular momentum in infinitesimally short time)

ehild
 
ehild said:
The rod hits the ball at the height of its centre. So the rod does not exert torque about the centre of the ball. No torque, no change of angular momentum. (The force of friction is finite, it does not have effect on angular momentum in infinitesimally short time)

ehild

Oh, really! Thank you!
Now I start to calculate the time from bounce to pure roll.
I have two eqns:
##m\dfrac{dv}{dt}=-F_{f}##
##\dfrac{2}{5}mr^2\dfrac{d\omega}{dt}=-F_{f}r##
Here not mess with the signs?
 
From integrating above eqns:
##\dfrac{2}{5}\omega r-v=const##
Constant determine from initial conditions, e.g. ##const=\dfrac{2}{5}\dfrac{v_0}{r} r-\dfrac{7}{13}v_0=-\dfrac{9}{65}v_0##
When will the pure rolling ##v=\omega r##, then ##\dfrac{2}{5}\omega r-\omega r= -\dfrac{9}{65}v_0##
E.g.
##\omega r = \dfrac{3}{13}v_0##

##v=\dfrac{3}{13}v_0## - velocity of pure rolling.
Then
##v_{at\; the\; finish\; of\; sliding,\; or\; starting\; pure\; roll}=v_{initial\; velocity\; after\; bounce} +at##
or
##\dfrac{3}{13}v_0-\dfrac{7}{13}v_0=at##
##-\dfrac{4}{13}v_0=at##
##t=-\dfrac{4}{13}v_0\dfrac{1}{a}##
From the eqn of center mass motion ##a=-kg##

Answer ##t=\dfrac{4}{13}\dfrac{v_0}{kg}##

That does not match with the answer book of problems ##t=\dfrac{40}{91}\dfrac{v_0}{kg}##
 
Take care of the signs.
After collision, the ball travels to the right and spins anticlockwise. When it starts to roll it travels to the right with velocity v and rotates clockwise with ω=v/r. The friction accelerates clockwise rotation.

ehild
 
ehild said:
Take care of the signs.
After collision, the ball travels to the right and spins anticlockwise. When it starts to roll it travels to the right with velocity v and rotates clockwise with ω=v/r. The friction accelerates clockwise rotation.

ehild

I was not thinking. Thanks!

ef0d7deae537cab688ad2e55d7843ede.jpg


Right calculations:

From integrating above eqns:
##\dfrac{2}{5}\omega r-v=const##
Constant determine from initial conditions, e.g. ##const=\dfrac{2}{5}\dfrac{v_0}{r} r-\dfrac{7}{13}v_0=-\dfrac{9}{65}v_0##
When will the pure rolling ##v=-\omega r##, then ##\dfrac{2}{5}\omega r+\omega r= -\dfrac{9}{65}v_0##
E.g.
##\omega r = - \dfrac{9}{91}v_0##

##v=\dfrac{9}{91}v_0## - velocity of pure rolling.
Then
##v_{at\; the\; finish\; of\; sliding,\; or\; starting\; pure\; roll}=v_{initial\; velocity\; after\; bounce} +at##
or
##\dfrac{9}{91}v_0-\dfrac{7}{13}v_0=at##
##-\dfrac{4}{13}v_0=at##
##t=-\dfrac{40}{91}v_0\dfrac{1}{a}##
From the eqn of center mass motion ##a=-kg##

Answer ##t=\dfrac{40}{91}\dfrac{v_0}{kg}##
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Nice work!

ehild
 
  • #11
ehild said:
Nice work!

ehild

Thanks for the help!
 

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