Humans Learn from Nature: Geckos & Improving Technology

[SkepticJ]

Geckos, we learned from you, now watch what we humans http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,68639,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

 

[Danger]

Excellent link, Skeptic. Very interesting.

 

[SkepticJ]

Excellent link, Skeptic. Very interesting.

Robots are going to be able to go anywhere once they get this adhesive mass produced.
I can't wait, but obviously have to, for climbing gloves/boots.

 

[Danger]

And then I'll finally be able to make a Spider-Man suit for Hallowe'en without being cheesy. I've never done it because I couldn't figure out the climbing bit. (Got the web-shooters worked out, though.) Now if someone can advise me on a good, cheap version of 'cold fire', I can get on with the Human Torch and Johnny Blaze.

 

[quark]

Perhaps, we will see all those super heroes for real, in our life time except that they will no more be called as super heroes.

 

[SkepticJ]

(Got the web-shooters worked out, though.) Now if someone can advise me on a good, cheap version of 'cold fire', I can get on with the Human Torch and Johnny Blaze.

How did you do the web-shooters; silly string can?

I'm afraid you'll have to wait on http://discuss.foresight.org/~josh/Ufog.html to simulate how fire looks without the heat.

 

[Danger]

How did you do the web-shooters; silly string can?

:rofl:
Not exactly. It involves a solenoid-controlled C02 pressure source and segmented canister with a spinning nozzle assembly on the end. It's based upon interface polymerization. When you fire it, you get 3 x 1mm strands of Nylon 6-10 winding around each other at about 200 rpm with a blast of Super Glue down the middle.
As for the fire, there's cold fire available now, and I have the instructions for making it. Essentially, it's just alcohol and water mixed. The problem is that it produces a virtually invisible flame.

 

[Astronuc]

As for the fire, there's cold fire available now, and I have the instructions for making it. Essentially, it's just alcohol and water mixed. The problem is that it produces a virtually invisible flame.

May be add a little NaCl (or other Na compound) to the water. Sodium is emits yellow when burning.

 

[SkepticJ]

:rofl:
Not exactly. It involves a solenoid-controlled C02 pressure source and segmented canister with a spinning nozzle assembly on the end. It's based upon interface polymerization. When you fire it, you get 3 x 1mm strands of Nylon 6-10 winding around each other at about 200 rpm with a blast of Super Glue down the middle.

Have you actually made a prototype, or it's just on paper? I'd suggest you make a physical working model to test out if the later is the case. For one reason of another things sometimes don't work in reality just like you think they will. Some version of what you describe would probably work however.
Question though, what makes the nylon spiral cord stick to what you shoot it at? The superglue? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust my life to patch of superglue that's only say 5mm by 5mm. Superglue isn't that super.

 

[SkepticJ]

May be add a little NaCl (or other Na compound) to the water. Sodium is emits yellow when burning.

So the cold fire is actually chemicals that are rapidly oxidizing? How does this cold fire work without heat?

 

[Danger]

May be add a little NaCl (or other Na compound) to the water.

Or maybe pure sodium for a slightly warmer flame? :uhh:
Thanks, Astro... I'll look into it, as long as it doesn't bring the temperature above about 80ºC. I don't want anyone getting burned when I'm dancing.

Have you actually made a prototype, or it's just on paper?

On paper for now. There are some technical difficulties that I haven't worked out yet. I can make a really simplified version without spinners for the chemical testing bit. Depending upon which specific agents I use, there might be byproducts that need to be chemically neutralized before ejection. The major mechanical problem is how to make the spinnaret head cut the strands at shut-off, and not clog up doing so, since the polymerization is a self-sustaining reaction. Also, getting the nozzle angles right will be trial and error; they have to be offset enough to make it spin, and yet still maintain a reasonable coherence among the strands.

I wouldn't trust my life to patch of superglue that's only say 5mm by 5mm. Superglue isn't that super.

I don't plan to be swinging around the city on it. It's designed as a short-range anti-mugging device. I can't imagine that it will ever be able to shoot more than a couple of metres. The idea is to tangle a guy up to disable him (and maybe glue his nose and mouth shut if I'm really annoyed with him).

 

[SkepticJ]

I don't plan to be swinging around the city on it. It's designed as a short-range anti-mugging device. I can't imagine that it will ever be able to shoot more than a couple of metres. The idea is to tangle a guy up to disable him (and maybe glue his nose and mouth shut if I'm really annoyed with him).

Ah.
Not that I want to take the wind out of your sails but, what's wrong with pepper spray?

Hmmm, how to make a real building swinging device? I have an idea, make a custom gun-like thing that uses the pressure from a blank gun shell to propell a "piton" patch of this newly made super setae adhesive. A carbon nanotube fiber cord would connect the piton to the gun, and be reeled back up via a high torque electric motor(or a high speed motor with some gearing to exchange speed for pulling ability).

I worked out the math on this new adhesive. Natural gecko setae have a practical strength(because only about a tenth of the number of the gecko's setae come in contact with the surface at a given time) of about 2kg per 1.8cm in diameter patch. Times that by 200 equals 400kg!

 

[Danger]

Ah.
Not that I want to take the wind out of your sails but, what's wrong with pepper spray?

I'm still awaiting trial over someone's objection to my .45, and mace or pepper spray are equally as illegal where I live. I'm trying to bypass laws.
I have to go to work right away, but will get back to this whenever I can manage to get computer time again.

 

[SkepticJ]

I'm still awaiting trial over someone's objection to my .45, and mace or pepper spray are equally as illegal where I live. I'm trying to bypass laws.

Oh, I didn't know it was for serious use. You're a cop? What about electrical weapons, you know, tasers, stun guns, electrical stun batons etc.? This is still being developed, but should be great when they can be bought. I want one, no doubt.

 

[Danger]

You're a cop? What about electrical weapons, you know, tasers, stun guns, electrical stun batons etc.? This is still being developed, but should be great when they can be bought. I want one, no doubt.

Not a cop, but I've worked for RCMP and CSIS a couple of times. Mainly, I'm just a firm believer that it's better to have a gun and not need one than to need one and not have it. Tasers, believe it or not, are even more illegal than guns here. I was looking into the 'fluid' Taser, which is like a double-barrel water pistol firing twin streams of conductive fluid. I don't have time to read the link that you provided right now, but it looks very interesting at a quick scan. Maybe I'll see about building one. (Incidentally, one of the modifications of the web-shooters that I've been contemplating is introducing conductive material to the polymer and adding a Taser circuit. Maintaining contact with 2 strands on separate polarities through the spinarette assembly is going to be a new nightmare in itself.)
Thanks very much for providing that link. I'll look into it in more depth when I have a chance.

 

[hypatia]

A web shooter! I want one! Can't use mace/pepper spray here either.

 

[SkepticJ]

Tasers, believe it or not, are even more illegal than guns here.

Oh, I never put anything past human stupidity; It really knows no bounds. Tasers are only a threat if the person who's shot is on meth, coke etc. If they won't listen to the cop and die from being shot by the taser, it's their own damn fault.

 

[Danger]

I want one!

Hi hon;
If I ever get it working properly, I'll send you one (or the blueprints if it's really expensive).

If they won't listen to the cop and die from being shot by the taser, it's their own damn fault.

Agreed. In fact, the Calgary force is just introducing them to their arsenal right now (1 per car). RCMP have had them for a couple of years. They're categorized as 'Prohibited Weapons' here, which puts them in the same class as full-auto guns, switchblades, suppressors, grenades, etc.. Handguns, other than .32's or under 4" barrelled, ones are 'Restricted Weapons'. Regardless of how painful it is, I'd rather be shot with a Taser than a .40 Glock.

 

[SkepticJ]

Hi hon;
If I ever get it working properly, I'll send you one (or the blueprints if it's really expensive).

Put me down for one also.

Now if someone will get around to making a real version of Dr. Otto Octavious' four robotic arms I'll be happier.

 

[Danger]

I'll get on that right away.
Actually gave it some thought about 30 years ago. It wasn't practical at the time, but with micromachines...

 

[SkepticJ]

I'll get on that right away.
Actually gave it some thought about 30 years ago. It wasn't practical at the time, but with micromachines...

Yeah, like that utility fog I linked to. That will be some awsome stuff!

What power source were you thinking of? Nothing short of nanotech chemical powered motors would provide a practical (long gaps between fuel-up time) and mobile source of energy to run such a thing, at least that I know of.

 

[Danger]

What power source were you thinking of?

Essentially pencil-sized 5,000psi hydraulic cylinders run from a 12VDC Power Pack with proportional solenoid valves. This was before microprocessors were available to the public, so controlling the things would have taken several people working joysticks. (Don't even ask about feedback circuitry.) The assembly also would have weighed about half a tonne and wouldn't have had enough strength to lift it's own weight. As I said, not practical.

 

[SkepticJ]

Essentially pencil-sized 5,000psi hydraulic cylinders run from a 12VDC Power Pack with proportional solenoid valves. This was before microprocessors were available to the public, so controlling the things would have taken several people working joysticks. (Don't even ask about feedback circuitry.) The assembly also would have weighed about half a tonne and wouldn't have had enough strength to lift it's own weight. As I said, not practical.

The animatronic anaconda that was used in the (awful) movie Anaconda worked really well. Yes, some was CGI, but some was animatronic too.

 

[Danger]

I never saw that movie, Skeptic, nor do I intend to, but it seemed to work pretty well in the trailers. Anamatronics are great! I love them, and sometimes use small-scaled devices in my Hallowe'en costume designs, but their practicality is pretty much limited to entertainment purposes.

 

[SkepticJ]

Some more information on the synthetic setae:

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/issues/2005/september/gecko.asp

And the size of the nanotubes: http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/CC/article.asp?doi=b506047h

10nm in diameter, there's still room to get smaller (and thusly stronger from more surface area)

 

[SkepticJ]

Anamatronics are great! I love them, and sometimes use small-scaled devices in my Hallowe'en costume designs, but their practicality is pretty much limited to entertainment purposes.

Depends what kinds. The robot used in the filming of Lost in Space could kill a person with how strong it is.
So, what do you dress up as, a Borg?

 

[Danger]

Just my way of looking at things, but I wouldn't classify the LIS bot as anamatronic because it isn't supposed to resemble anything other than a robot. Therefore, it is a robot. Most life-replicating systems are too delicate, complicated, and/or underpowered to accomplish much.
I don't have any specific 'creature' in mind when I build something, with the exception of The Alien or Rom the Spaceknight from Marvel comics. The alien jaw/tongue drive is a rack & pinion setup run from a Mustang 6-way power seat motor pack. The tail is flexed by a winch mechanism, and the 'air conditioner' was a 120psi compressor pumping through perforated aquarium tubing coiled around my body. The A/C was removed when I switched to a lighter material for the body and quit overheating. The whole thing runs off of a 12V 70A/hour gel cell connected to a motorcycle battery charger with the plug hidden inside a hatch in the end of the tail.

 

[SkepticJ]

I don't have any specific 'creature' in mind when I build something, with the exception of The Alien or Rom the Spaceknight from Marvel comics.

Ooooo, photos please!

 

[Danger]

Oops! Just notice a typo in the last one. That's 7 amp/hours for the battery, not 70. The alien is kinda beat-up, but I'll try to get some pictures of it. There aren't any of it assembled and occupied. I'm going to rebuild Rom sometime and do it right. The first one was over 25 years ago, and just made of polyester body filler painted silver. There are a couple of pictures, but I'll have to figure out how to get them into the computer.