Increase temperature of liquid in a box without heat convection or conduction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenge of increasing the temperature of a liquid or gas contained within a metallic box without utilizing heat convection or conduction. Participants explore various methods and principles related to energy transfer, while also addressing the limitations and conditions of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that increasing temperature requires increasing energy, which can be achieved through heat or work.
  • Another participant proposes using radiation as a potential method to increase temperature, despite the limitations of gases and liquids being not completely transparent.
  • A participant mentions the idea of removing the box from a gravitational field to eliminate natural convection.
  • There is a discussion about the potential of ultrasound and other forms of radiation to transfer energy, with questions raised about their effectiveness in surpassing the metallic box.
  • Some participants express frustration over the vagueness of the original question and the lack of specific application details.
  • One participant emphasizes that without increasing energy, temperature cannot be increased, reiterating the fundamental principles involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the principle that temperature cannot be increased without increasing energy. However, there are multiple competing views on the methods available to achieve this, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness of proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

The discussion lacks specific details about the experimental setup and the properties of the liquid or gas involved, which may influence the feasibility of suggested methods.

fysik
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hello
I have a liquid or gas inside a metallic box (eg. stainless steel 5mm thick)
how can I increase its temperature without heat convection or conduction?
 
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Squash the box in a 10 ton press?
 
obviously I don't want to destroy the box
 
If you want to increase temperature then you must increase the energy. You can do that by heat or by work. If you can do neither then it cannot be increased.
 
There are lots of ways to do it but I don't want to waste your time with suggestions that you can't use because of some detail you haven't mentioned.
 
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DaleSpam said:
If you want to increase temperature then you must increase the energy. You can do that by heat or by work. If you can do neither then it cannot be increased.

Well, he only disallows convection and conduction, not heat transfer in general. You can still use radiation...
 
Gases and liquids are not completely transparent, so maybe some kind of radiation will work. To eliminate natural convection, take your box out of a gravitational field.

Chet
 
CWatters said:
There are lots of ways to do it but I don't want to waste your time with suggestions that you can't use because of some detail you haven't mentioned.

I don't have any other details, I am looking for ALL possible ways to achieve it
 
fysik said:
hello
I have a liquid or gas inside a metallic box (eg. stainless steel 5mm thick)
how can I increase its temperature without heat convection or conduction?

fysik said:
I don't have any other details, I am looking for ALL possible ways to achieve it

Your question is pretty vague. Can you tell us what the application is? We could be of more help if we knew the context of the question and the application.
 
  • #10
there is no application, it's just an experiment
 
  • #11
OK, then the physical principles are that you cannot increase temperature without increasing energy. That can either be done through heat or work. So all possible ways of increasing heat or doing work will achieve it.
 
  • #12
heat or work...
well work can be anything!
and also any radiation?
ultrasound?
 
  • #13
Will the radiation transfer energy? Will ultrasound transfer energy? If so, then see my previous post.
 
  • #14
they may transfer energy
but will they surpass the metallic box?
 
  • #15
How should we know? You provide no details.

You have been taught the physics. Everything else is uninformed speculation on our part. Thread closed.
 
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