Increasing The Capacitance In A Voltage Booster

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of increasing capacitance in a voltage booster circuit, particularly focusing on whether a new capacitor with double the capacitance can still charge to the same voltage as the original. The conversation touches on various types of voltage boosters and the effects of capacitance on circuit performance, including charging time and effective series resistance (ESR).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if doubling the capacitance will allow the circuit to charge the new capacitor to the same voltage, albeit more slowly.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on what is meant by a "classic" voltage booster and provides examples of different types, including AC driven capacitor–diode ladders and switching DC–DC converters.
  • It is noted that increasing the output capacitor in a switching DC–DC converter would slow the start time and reduce ripple, but could lead to issues with higher ESR in larger capacitors.
  • One participant challenges the assertion that higher capacitance leads to higher ESR, suggesting that ESR typically decreases with increasing capacitance, and emphasizes the importance of using multiple smaller capacitors to manage current transients.
  • Another participant elaborates on the relationship between capacitor design and ESR, explaining how different shapes and sizes of capacitors affect their ESR and performance in a circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the relationship between capacitance and ESR, with some participants asserting that higher capacitance leads to higher ESR, while others argue that this is not generally the case. The discussion remains unresolved as participants present differing views and technical details without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of capacitor behavior in circuits, particularly regarding ESR and the physical characteristics of capacitors. There are unresolved assumptions about the specific circuit configuration and the intended application of the increased capacitance.

Yrton
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Good day, everyone.
Let's picture a classic diagram of a voltage booster which is connected to a capacitor. If we double the capacitance, by replacing it using another capacitor with the same voltage rating as the previous one, will the circuit still be able to charge the new capacitor up to the same voltage as the previous one (though in a longer amount of time)?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Yrton said:
Let's picture a classic diagram of a voltage booster which is connected to a capacitor.
What type of booster do you consider to be classic? Please provide a circuit or a link.

There are AC driven capacitor–diode ladders such as the Cockcroft–Walton multiplier;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft–Walton_generator

Then there are switching DC–DC converters that employ inductive flyback; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter
Increasing the output capacitor in that application would proportionally slow the start time and reduce the ripple during operation.
But there will be a problem you must avoid. If the capacitor has a higher capacitance value it will probably have a higher “Effective Series Resistance”. It will then run hot, dry out and fail sooner. Rather than one, use several smaller capacitors in parallel, selected for low ESR. Put some ceramic and if possible some tantalum capacitance in parallel to take the edge of the current spikes.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dlgoff
Baluncore said:
If the capacitor has a higher capacitance value it will probably have a higher “Effective Series Resistance”. [...] Rather than one, use several smaller capacitors in parallel, selected for low ESR

I am not sure where you are getting this from. The ESR typically decreases with increasing capacitance[1][2]. The reason for choosing different types of capacitors on the output is to better respond to rapid current transients and thus maintain a stable voltage.

With that said, you are still correct (most of the time) when you say choosing multiple smaller low ESR capacitors in place of a single low ESR capacitor can decrease ESR overall, because the differences in ESR from value to value are generally small.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent_series_resistance#Capacitors
[2] http://jestineyong.com/esr-meter-table/
 
@ the Comet.
You are correct that manufacturers proportionally reduce the ESR for higher capacitance. I was referring to low-cost rolled-foil capacitors where doubling the capacitance halves the reactance, so doubles the AC ripple current. But capacitor temperature will be proportional to I2R so doubling the current requires one quarter the ESR, but the manufacturer only halves the ESR. That will be only partially countered by the increase in surface area for cooling.

For similar materials, a cylindrical capacitor will have a capacitance proportional to volume = the circular end area multiplied by the length, C = A * L. But ESR does not follow the same rule, ESR = A / L. That suggests long thin capacitors have lower ESR than short fat ones.

To double the C of an axial capacitor placed on a PCB, the fixed length will require a √2 increase in diameter. ESR will double.
To double the C of a radial capacitor placed on a PCB, the fixed diameter will require double the length. ESR will halve.

But we do not yet know the OP circuit or the reason for increasing capacitance. At least the OP is now aware of ESR.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dlgoff and jim hardy

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
6K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
15K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K