(Index Notation) Summing a product of 3 numbers

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of the summation ∑aibici using index notation, particularly in the context of Einstein's summation convention. Participants explore the feasibility of expressing this summation with standard tensor operations and the implications of using specific matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that representing ∑aibici in index notation may not be possible using standard tensors like the Levi Cevita symbol and Kronecker Delta due to their restrictions on index usage.
  • Another participant proposes the introduction of a matrix A_{ijk} defined such that A_{iii} = 1 and A_{ijk} = 0 if any indices differ, asserting that this could represent the summation.
  • A later reply reiterates the idea of the matrix A_{ijk} and notes that such a matrix is not commonly used in physics due to the rarity of this type of summation.
  • Further contributions clarify that while A_{ijk} can be defined, it does not qualify as a tensor because it does not transform appropriately under coordinate changes.
  • One participant challenges the terminology, arguing that A_{ijk} should not be called a matrix since it has three indices, suggesting it is a multidimensional matrix instead.
  • Another participant points out that the summation ∑a^i b^i c^i is not invariant under coordinate transformations, contrasting it with established tensors like the Kronecker delta.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and validity of the proposed matrix A_{ijk} and its relation to tensor properties. There is no consensus on whether the summation can be effectively represented in index notation or the implications of using such a matrix.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the definitions of tensors and the conditions under which certain summations can be represented, particularly in relation to coordinate transformations.

throneoo
Messages
125
Reaction score
2
I have just begun reading about Einstein's summation convention and it got me thinking..
Is it possible to represent ∑aibici with index notation? Since we are only restricted to use an index twice at most I don't think it's possible to construct it using the standard tensors (Levi Cevita and Kronecker Delta). Levi Cevita doesn't work because it's only non-zero when the indices are all different and Kronecker Delta only connects two tensors, leaving the third one behind. It becomes clearer if I think of them in terms of vectors and matrices.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Well, you can introduce a matrix A_{ijk} such that A_{iii} = 1 and A_{ijk} = 0 if any of the indices differ. Then \sum_i a_i b_i c_i = A_{ijk} a^i b^j c^k. The matrix A_{ijk} might not be a very interesting matrix, mathematically.
 
stevendaryl said:
Well, you can introduce a matrix A_{ijk} such that A_{iii} = 1 and A_{ijk} = 0 if any of the indices differ. Then \sum_i a_i b_i c_i = A_{ijk} a^i b^j c^k. The matrix A_{ijk} might not be a very interesting matrix, mathematically.
That's exactly what I thought. I suppose this ad hoc matrix is not common because this type of summation rarely appears in Physics
 
throneoo said:
That's exactly what I thought. I suppose this ad hoc matrix is not common because this type of summation rarely appears in Physics

Well, the most common use of the Einstein summation convention is for manipulations of vectors and tensors. For those uses, one-dimensional matrices such as a^i, written with a raised index, corresponds to a vector, and b_j, with a lowered index, corresponds to a covector (there is a geometric distinction between vectors and covectors, even though people often ignore the distinction when using Cartesian coordinates for the components). Something with more than one index is a tensor. For example, g_{ij} is the metric tensor, which is used to compute the length of a vector:

|\vec{V}| = \sqrt{g_{ij} V^i V^j}

But not every matrix of numbers corresponds to a tensor. The reason why is because tensors transform when you change coordinate systems (for example, changing from Cartesian to polar coordinates). If you define A_{ijk} so that in any coordinate system, A_{iii} =1 and A_{ijk} = 0 when any two indices are different, then A will not be a tensor.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: throneoo
stevendaryl said:
Well, you can introduce a matrix A_{ijk} such that A_{iii} = 1 and A_{ijk} = 0 if any of the indices differ. Then \sum_i a_i b_i c_i = A_{ijk} a^i b^j c^k. The matrix A_{ijk} might not be a very interesting matrix, mathematically.
I would not call ##A_{ijk}## a matrix. Something represented by a matrix generally has two indices (or one in the case of row or column matrices). This would be some sort of multidimensional matrix.

Seen as a tensor, this object would not be an isotropic tensor, i.e., it would have different components in another frame, unlike the Kronecker delta or the permutation symbol (seen as a Cartesian pseudo-tensor). In the same fashion ##\sum_i a^i b^i c^i## is not an invariant under coordinate transformations.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: throneoo

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
9K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
574
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K