Indonesia Playing Politics With Tsunami Relief

[russ_watters]

Nice post, Gokul. That puts the importance of America's involvement in perspective.

 

[russ_watters]

So I posted a wishy-washy response to a wishy-washy set of information. I apoligize for the confusion and will respond more carefully next time.

Fair enough.

 

[russ_watters]

Also:

Americans have a bad image... its obvious why.

World Bank ****ed everyone over.
WTO ****ed everyone over. [emphasis added]

Neither of those are American institutions.

Bush trying to **** everyone over.

Bush is one American, albeit the most powerful: but you still can't extend his views to all Americans.

 

[JasonRox]

Also: Neither of those are American institutions. Bush is one American, albeit the most powerful: but you still can't extend his views to all Americans.

Why vote for someone who doesn't support your views?

Hmm... that's 51% of Americans. If you didn't vote, that implies you share all views.

As for Gokul, tons of vessels with poorly trained marines can't do much.

 

[Townsend]

If you didn't vote, that implies you share all views.

Whatever you are somking I need some of that stuff cause you must be high as a kite to make such an obtuse statement.

Oh by the way, next time you are going to say something that lamebrained please give me a warning. I spit OJ all over my laptop from laughing so hard when I read that.

 

[Gokul43201]

As for Gokul, tons of vessels with poorly trained marines can't do much.

Can't do much, eh ? Perhaps you're right.

This is all the 15,000-odd servicemen and women in the region have managed to do so far :

About 20 million lbs of relief supplies and equipment have been delivered to the region, at a daily rate of about 8,000 gallons of clean water (produced by on-board desalination plants), 70,000 lbs of food and over 100,000 lbs of other supplies.

While the hospital ship USS Mercy is on route to the Indian Ocean, Navy and Army medics have treated over 200 patients. The 8th US Army Medical Unit is on its way from South Korea.

The military is also providing logistical support to the Govts. of Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia, upon request.

Lousy incompetents !

Jason, it seems to me like you're arguing for the sake of argument. Are you really trying to suggest that the US Military is doing a poor job, and the tsunami victims would be better off if the US left ?

Want to tell me how many ships, aircraft, or personnel Canda has sent ?

 

[russ_watters]

Why vote for someone who doesn't support your views?

Hmm... that's 51% of Americans. If you didn't vote, that implies you share all views.

As for Gokul, tons of vessels with poorly trained marines can't do much.

Jeez, have you ever voted? Voting for someone just means you share more of his views than the other guy's views. Its pretty much impossible for a candidate to share all of everyone's views.

And do you have anything to explain about the WTO and World Bank, or were you just hoping no one would notice that hip-shot?

As for Gokul, tons of vessels with poorly trained marines can't do much.

Even assuming Marines are the dumbest people on the planet, what's needed most on the ground in the relief effort is manual labor and Marines are quite good at that.

But, that's secondary to the main purpose of that Naval force: that Naval force has about a hundred helicopters.

 

[JasonRox]

You obviously know more about this situation and American politics.

I never said Americans do a bad job (Marines are poorly trained, but that does not imply they do a bad job).

I just don't understand why having Americans all over the place is so important. If Indonesia can manage, then so be it.

Note: It is said Americans are living fear and anxiety at the moment. Does this sound vaguely similar to the time when Hitler was around? ("Jews taking over!") Not an argument, just asking.

 

[plover]

I just don't understand why having Americans all over the place is so important. If Indonesia can manage, then so be it.

I have trouble seeing this particular issue as being about "having Americans all over the place". There is a very good chance that sending these naval ships will have a better effect for the people who are actually in trouble than other forms of help. As Colin Powell points out in the interview I linked above, Indonesian military hardware (specifically planes that might be used in the relief effort) is in disrepair, and the U.S. is reluctant to start supplying them with parts again because we do not want to support the goals for which Indonesia is using its military (which from I've been reading about Aceh, seems like a good policy). Providing logistical aid in the form of ships, helicopters, and bodies seems like a good way to insure our contribution is used to help tsunami victims rather than being siphoned off by corruption or used for opportunistic purposes by Indonesia.

There is no way to determine what is going on here by just looking at the U.S.; it is also necessary to look at Indonesia's internal policies and their actions since the disaster. There's also nothing special about this being the U.S.—given that we have a carrier group that we could make available for this purpose, would it be better if we didn't use it to help? If anyone else wants to send ships to help, I'm sure that the peoples of the Indian Ocean would be grateful and the U.S. personnel already at work would be glad of the help.

 

[tumor]

Americans forcess are just like Trojan Horse.Under humanitarian excuse they are planting spies, promoting dissent and even want to build temporary base on Sumatra.The sooner Indonesia throws them out the better.
Without Americans they will be better off !
Neamwhile European Union nations (and of course countless other nations too) are doing EXCELLENT job of helping Indonesians to recover from tsunami.

 

[PerennialII]

Americans forcess are just like Trojan Horse.Under humanitarian excuse they are planting spies, promoting dissent and even want to build temporary base on Sumatra.The sooner Indonesia throws them out the better.
Without Americans they will be better off !
Neamwhile European Union nations (and of course countless other nations too) are doing EXCELLENT job of helping Indonesians to recover from tsunami.

Now there is a strong argument if there is one ...

I think it should be well stated from above that no one has similar muscle as the US, our EU leaders have done a decent job in raising capital for the relief efforts and will hopefully play a big role in the future rebuilding efforts, but they've absolutely nothing to give for the immediate efforts on site. EU has started planning a force of its own especially for natural disasters etc. (which could be dispatched wherever at a very short notice), once it came about that gee ... we ain't really prepared and can't ourselves do much that support relief organizations.

 

[Gonzolo]

... upon request...

That's the most important part.

Want to tell me how many ships, aircraft, or personnel Can[a]da has sent ?

As much as everyone else : as much as it can.

 

[Gokul43201]

As much as everyone else : as much as it can.

Last weekend 200 members of Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART) landed in Sri Lanka to help with the effort there.

Yes, everyone's trying to help as much as they can - and when I say "everyone", I don't really mean it (but let's not get into the exceptions now.) So why start bashing the US for doing as much as it can ? Or does the US not belong under "everyone" ?

 

[Gokul43201]

Americans forcess are just like Trojan Horse.Under humanitarian excuse they are planting spies, promoting dissent and even want to build temporary base on Sumatra.The sooner Indonesia throws them out the better.
Without Americans they will be better off !
Neamwhile European Union nations (and of course countless other nations too) are doing EXCELLENT job of helping Indonesians to recover from tsunami.

And you intend to substantiate this ?

Oops...sorry, my mistake ! Nevermind, I thought you were someone else !

 

[tumor]

Few months ago those same US helicopters we saw distributing food to Indonesians were spraying bullets and bombs on civilians in Iraq. Any selfrespecting and muslim nation may I add would not allow killers of their brothers to stay on their soil for too long.

 

[Gonzolo]

So why start bashing the US for doing as much as it can ? Or does the US not belong under "everyone" ?

To the first : I don't think I did. But I don't think Indonesia has to accept military training in their territory in order to receive aid. And I don't think the problems of Navy pilots belong in the context of the victims'.

To the second : I want to believe that it does just as much as I want to understand how Bush believes he did the right thing with Iraq.

 

[Gokul43201]

Few months ago those same US helicopters we saw distributing food to Indonesians were spraying bullets and bombs on civilians in Iraq. Any selfrespecting and muslim nation may I add would not allow killers of their brothers to stay on their soil for too long.

Indonesia is not a Muslim State; it is secular. Now, back to whatever you were saying...

 

[Gokul43201]

To the first : I don't think I did.

My post was in response to Jason's statements, and he sure sounded like he was bashing.

Bush's logic for Iraq has little if anything, to do with this. Good things get done ... sometimes, despite Bush.

 

[tumor]

Indonesia is not a Muslim State; it is secular. Now, back to whatever you were saying...

Shut up Gokul !

 

[Gokul43201]

Shut up Gokul !

Good idea. I need to cool it.

 

[Gonzolo]

Bush's logic for Iraq has little if anything, to do with this. Good things get done ... sometimes, despite Bush.

Among other things, what Bush's logic did was to give US forces a bad reputation, so it isn't surprising that some countries aren't interested in associating themselves to them.

 

[PerennialII]

So it did, but there is a time and place for politics, this arguably ain't one of them.

 

[Gonzolo]

Tsunami or not, Indonesia remains sovereign of its land.

 

[Gokul43201]

But what about the arms negotiations then ? Isn't this suggestive of untimely political maneuvring ?

 

[kaos]

I just wish to say ( froam an asians perspective)that i am very impressed by the efforts of the americans and europeans people.I myself am very fortunate not to experience the disaster but i disagree with criticsm of the US relief effort. The US uses military ships not for military reasons in this case but because the US navy is the biggest in the world and is well equiped for this disaster.

I also wish to say that most asians(that are not affected) are probably apathetic to the plights of the affected and that "outsiders" are doing more to help.

 

[Curious3141]

Few months ago those same US helicopters we saw distributing food to Indonesians were spraying bullets and bombs on civilians in Iraq. Any selfrespecting and muslim nation may I add would not allow killers of their brothers to stay on their soil for too long.

I'm constantly amazed by people who think along these lines. May I ask exactly what other rich Muslim countries have done to help their brothers in dire need ?

I'll tell you.

Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, the richest nations in the Islamic world, donated a paltry $10 million each. The United Arab Emirates donated some $20 million for their Islamic brothers.

Egypt's contribution is $104,000.00. Egypt gets $2 BILLION in US foreign aid annually.

Contrast this to private, "capitalist", "Christian" companies' contributions :

Pfizer donated $10 million in cash and $25 million in drugs. (That’s more than oil-rich Saudi Arabia and Kuwait combined). General Motors pledged $2 million in cash, agreed to match employee donations dollar for dollar, and is sending vehicles to transport food and medical supplies.

If you think the world should be divided along religious lines, even at the time of an unmitigated tragedy like this, I feel sorry for you.

 

[tumor]

Americans,Canadians are just talking but they usualy don't do walking.

 

[Hurkyl]

Er, did you read anything that was said?

 

[Curious3141]

Er, did you read anything that was said?

I think he "just talking he don't do reading".

 

[revelator]

tumor: [n] an abnormal new mass of tissue that serves no purpose

Taken from http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/tumor.