Induction motor calculation problems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculations related to an induction motor, focusing on parameters such as stator and rotor currents, power losses, and torque. Participants are analyzing the implications of their calculations and questioning the validity of certain assumptions, particularly regarding the motor's characteristics and losses.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents detailed calculations for stator current, rotor current, magnetizing current, power losses, and electromagnetic torque, raising concerns about the application of Kirchhoff's Law and the magnitude of Joule losses.
  • Another participant questions the small value of magnetic inductance (Lm), suggesting it leads to unrealistic current and power loss values.
  • A third participant agrees that the calculated values seem excessive for a real induction motor, noting the theoretical nature of the exercise.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between electromagnetic torque and shaft torque, considering the effects of friction and load conditions.
  • One participant suggests that the calculations are correct but points out that mechanical losses should be accounted for in the power calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the calculated values and the assumptions made about the motor's characteristics. There is no consensus on the accuracy of the calculations or the implications of the results.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the assumptions regarding the motor's parameters, particularly the small value of Lm and the resulting high stator current and power losses. The discussion remains focused on theoretical calculations without resolving the discrepancies noted.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in electrical engineering, particularly those studying induction motors and their operational characteristics, as well as those engaged in theoretical exercises in motor analysis.

Martin Harris
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Homework Statement
Given the 3-phased induction machine working as a motor in AC, please see the following diagram attached below, and its parameters.
Relevant Equations
Kirchoff's Law
Ohm's Law
Given the following input parameters:
ParameterValue
Rs (Resistance through stator)1.4 Ω
Rr (Resistance through stator)0.7 Ω
Ls (stator inductance) = Lr (rotor inductance)0.002 H
xs = xr = 2*π*f*Ls0.6283i Ω
Lm(magnetic inductance)0.01 H
xm = 2*π*f*Lm3.1415iΩ
f (frequency)50 Hz
p (number of pairs of poles)3
s (slip)0.04
Vsl (Stator line voltage) - star configuration ; Vsp(Stator phase voltage)380 V ; 220V
zs = Rs +xs(1.4 + 0.6283i)Ω
zm = xm because Rw = 0 (please see diagram attached below)3.1415iΩ
zr= Rr/s +xr(17.5 + 0.6283i)Ω

Please note that everything that has an underline below is treated as a phasor.

Following the main s (stator) branch, the m (magnetizing) and r (rotor) sub-branches are in parallel as they can be seen in the attached diagram.

a) (stator current) = ?
$$\underline {Is} =? $$
$$\underline {Is} = \frac {Vsl/sqrt(3)} {z_ab} (Eq1)$$
$$z_{ab} = z_s + z_{parallel} (Eq2)$$
$$z_s = R_s+x_s = (1.4 + 0.6283i) Ω (Eq3)$$
According to Microsoft Math Solver:
$$z_{parallel} = \frac {zm*zr} {zm+zr} =0.5389+3.0254i (Eq4)$$
Substituting Eq3 and Eq4 into Eq2, yields:
$$z_{ab} =(1.9389+3.6537i ) Ω $$
Hence substituting z_ab and Vsl/sqrt(3) into Eq1
$$\underline {Is} =\frac {380/sqrt(3)} {(1.9389+3.6537i ) Ω} $$
$$\underline {Is} =(24.8634−46.8523i) A $$
$$ I_s =53.04080 A $$

b) φ =? (angle)
$$φ = arctan \frac {46.8523} {24.8634} $$
$$φ = 62.04 degrees $$

C) rotor current = ? magnetizing current =?
$$\underline {Ir} = \frac {\underline {Vparallel}} {z_{r}/s} (Eq5)$$
$$\underline {Vparallel} =\underline {Is}*z_{parallel} $$
$$\underline {Vparallel} =(24.8634−46.8523i) A * (0.5389+3.0254i)Ω$$
$$\underline {Vparallel} =155.1458+49.9730i$$
$$V_{parallel} = 162.9954 V $$

Substituting back into Eq5 yields:
$$\underline {Ir} = \frac {155.1458+49.9730i} {17.5 + 0.6283i }$$
$$\underline {Ir} = 8.95645348+2.53403773i$$
$$I_r = 9.3079 A $$

$$\underline {Im} = \frac {\underline {Vparallel}} {z_{m}} (Eq6)$$
$$\underline {Im} = \frac {155.1458+49.9730i} {3.1415i} $$
$$\underline {Im} = 15.9073−49.3858i $$
$$I_r = 51.8844 A $$

d) Stator Power = ?
$$\underline {P_s} = 3* \frac {U_{s}} {sqrt(3)} * I_{s}* cos (φ) $$
$$\underline {P_s} = 3* \frac {380V} {sqrt(3)} *53.04080 *cos (62.04 degrees)$$
$$\underline {P_s} = 16367.8966 W$$

e) Joule stator loss = ? Joule rotor loss = ?
$$L_{js} = 3*R_s* I_s^2 $$
$$L_{js} = 3*1.4 Ω* 53.04080^2 A^2 $$
$$L_{js} = 11815.9711 W $$

$$L_{jr} = 3*R_r* I_r^2 $$
$$L_{jr} = 3*0.7 Ω* 9.3079^2 A^2 $$
$$L_{jr} = 181.9377 W $$

$$L_{mech} = (1.5/100) * P_s = 24.5684 W $$
$$L_{ventilation} = (1/100) * P_s = 16.3789 W $$

f) Electromagnetic Power = ? Mechanical Power =? Assuming negligible L_Fe (Iron losses ~= 0)
$$P_{elm} = P_s - L_{js} = 16367.8966 W - 11815.9711 W $$
$$P_{elm} = 4551.9255 W $$

$$P_{mech} = P_{elm} - L_{jr} = P_{elm} * (1-s) $$
$$P_{mech} = 4551.9255 W -181.9377 W$$
$$P_{mech} = 4369.9878 W $$

g)Electromagnetic torque =? Shaft torque = ?

$$M_{electromagnetic} = \frac {P_{elm}} {Ω_s} $$
$$Ω_s = \frac {2*π*f} {p} = 104.7197 rad/s $$
$$M_{electromagnetic} = \frac {4551.9255 W} {104.7197 rad/s } $$
$$M_{electromagnetic} = 43.4677 Nm$$

$$M_{shaft} = \frac {P_{mech}} {Ω} $$
$$Ω = Ω_s*(1-s) = 100.5309 rad/s $$
$$M_{shaft} = \frac {4369.9878 W} {100.5309 rad/s } $$
$$M_{shaft} = 43.4691Nm$$

I think I am doing something wrong because Kirchoff's Law, doesen't seem to apply such that the the sum of the currents sub-branches Im+Ir > Is (main current).

Was expecting Is (main stator current) = Im+Ir (as the 2 sub-branches run in parallel)

Furthermore the Joule Stator Loss seems to be enormous Ljs =11.81 kW given that the stator Power was calculated as Ps =16.367 kW.

For sure I did something wrong, and I still didn't realize it, and that's why I need your help. I would be more than grateful if someone could check my calculations. Many thanks!
 

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Once again, I'm reading the Forum with my phone and my eyes aren't what they used to be. I'll check later with a large PC screen. Lm is too small
 
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Gordianus said:
Once again, I'm reading the Forum with my phone and my eyes aren't what they used to be. I'll check later with a large PC screen. Lm is too small
Right, okay. Thanks a lot!
That was the given Lm = 0.01 H

I just find it weird that Kirchoff's Law, doesen't seem to apply such that the the sum of the currents sub-branches Im+Ir > Is (main current).

Furthermore the Joule Stator Loss seems to be enormous Ljs =11.81 kW given that the stator Power was calculated as Ps =16.367 kW.
 
I checked your calculations and, at first glance, found no mistakes.
I insist, Lm is too small. This motor has no core!
No wonder the stator current is huge and the power losses shoot through the roof.
Let's assume the motor has no load (s=0). If you repeat the calculation will find the stator current is still too large. This is crazy. A good motor with no load should have a low stator current.
 
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Your calculation-it seems to me- is correct [except some calculation insignificant errors since in my calculation Im+Ir=Is, indeed]. But Pmech has to be less-you have to subtract the ventilation and mechanical losses.
 
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I agree with Gordianus: the motor data it is not for a real induction motor [efficacity 24%? and stator copper losses of 72%?]. However it is only a theoretical exercise, I agree]
 
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I wonder if the electromagnetic torque should be exactly the same (identical) to the shaft torque.
I guess that's feasible if we assume negligible friction.
 

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