Integrator Circuit Transfer Function (voltage divide)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transfer function of a non-standard integrator circuit involving an operational amplifier (op-amp). Participants explore the implications of circuit components on the transfer function, particularly in the context of Bode plots and Laplace transforms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their approach to deriving the transfer function using Kirchhoff's voltage law (KVL) and expresses uncertainty about the impact of an additional resistor on the linearity of the Bode plot.
  • Another participant suggests solving the differential equation (DE) or using a specific expression for capacitor voltage in the frequency domain.
  • A participant raises concerns about the difficulty in determining system dynamic parameters due to the circuit's configuration.
  • There is mention of using the Laplace transform to derive the transfer function, but one participant notes that a constant term complicates this process.
  • Another participant questions the purpose of a DC offset at the op-amp's non-inverting input and suggests compensating for it to allow for AC analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the transfer function and the implications of circuit components, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight challenges related to the presence of a DC offset and the complexity introduced by certain circuit elements, which may affect the derivation of the transfer function and the analysis of system dynamics.

qwertyuiop23
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I have attached a picture of the circuit in which I am attempting to build a transfer function for, however, as you can see it is not a normal integrator. Normally it is evident which resistor is the resistor that is part of the series connection to the op amp.

When I do the KVL on the circuit to get the values I get the following function

[itex] <br /> v_{in} = C\frac{dv_{o}}{dt} + 2.5\times R_1 (\frac{1}{R1} + \frac{1}{R_2})[/itex]

assuming that I voltage divide to [itex]2.5V[/itex] using values for [itex]R_1 = 5k\Omega R_2 = 910\Omega[/itex] and the input is 16.3V.

[itex] v_{in} = C\frac{dv_{o}}{dt} + 16.23[/itex]

From here I do not know how to get the transfer function. I am correct in assuming that the transfer function is no longer a linear line on the Bode plot due to that extra resistor that goes from the input to ground (thus reducing the current).

Or am I way off base with my assumptions.

Thank-you for your help
Lance

PS: I am an undergrad electrical engineer so the explanation does not have to be overly simplified.
 

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  • Integrator.png
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You could solve the DE, then for sinusoids let vin = A.sinѠt

Or you could start again, and let vcap = iC/(jѠc)
where iC is the capacitor current
 
That does make it more difficult to determine system dynamic parameters, ie rise time settling time and the such?
 
Your first post only mentioned Bode plot. If you are going to use Laplace, then let Vcap(s) = Icap(s)/(s.C)
 
Yes however, normally I use the Laplace form of the equation to make the transfer function to then recreate the Bode Plot.

The problem is that the Laplace transform is

[itex] <br /> sV_i = A s^2 V_o + B[/itex]

As you can see the Constant B makes creating the transfer function very difficult!
 
What's that DC offset on op-amp's (+) input in aid ofhttp://physicsforums.bernhardtmediall.netdna-cdn.com/images/icons/icon5.gif You won't get anywhere while that's there, it will just send your op-amp output directly to the + rail! If that offset is to remain, then you'll need to exactly compensate for it by feeding DC into the (-) input, then superimpose your AC (for the Bode plot) on top of that DC. Capacitor coupling will achieve this.

Is this a circuit you invented as an exercise? :confused:
 
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