International students and U.S. schools

[pergradus]

It's no big secret that there's a huge population of International students who come to America to get a college education. I think at my University something like 30% are international students (may be higher).

I'm wondering though - how do they afford it? Education is expensive for Americans, and we're the richest nation in the world. How are people from developing countries able to come here and afford the most expensive education in the world? Do they somehow get it cheaper than Americans? Is their government paying for it? Could someone explain how its works?

 

[ZapperZ]

They either received some form of financial assistance (scholarships, etc.), or they have rich parents.

Zz.

 

[MATLABdude]

At my university, foreign (undergrad) students are a cash cow: they pay something like 170% differential tuition (i.e. nearly three times what the domestic students pay). Then again, the provincial government doesn't directly kick in anything to subsidize them, but their numbers count towards indirect support (University-wide). The province loves it because it "increases the brand" at very low cost to them.

Grad student wise, they only have to pay around 100% differential tuition. My department probably has more international than domestic graduate students, but most receive some form of support from their supervisors. I've heard conflicting reports about how these folks (and sometimes, their spouses and children) can survive here on the low wages and in the face of having to pay double tuition--they're either (independently or dependently) wealthy, going deeply into debt, working part / full-time jobs on the side, or a combination of all of the above. The same probably applies for the undergrads.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Some of them are funded by foreign governments. I know that my country's government funds the brightest high school students (about 1000) and sponsor them to study abroad in the USA, Canada, Spain, France, UK, Japan, Taiwan Australia, and/or Germany. The government pays all tuition and also contributes with stipends. However, there's a catch. Those students must come back to the country and "contribute" for a period of 5 years. There are consequences for breach of agreement.

They also may fund promising graduate students. They also have the same 5 years catch.

I know Chile and Brazil fund many graduate students with the promise of doing their PhD abroad, but returning to their countries universities and/or labs to teach and to research.

Look up the history of ITA @ Brazil. This is another famous case with a variant. They will bring foreign professors to teach during the first years of the university.

 

[MATLABdude]

Some of them are funded by foreign governments. I know that my country's government funds the brightest high school students (about 1000) and sponsor them to study abroad in the USA, Canada, Spain, France, UK, Japan, Taiwan Australia, and/or Germany. The government pays all tuition and also contributes with stipends. However, there's a catch. Those students must come back to the country and "contribute" for a period of 5 years. There are consequences for breach of agreement.

They also may fund promising graduate students. They also have the same 5 years catch[...]

I'm curious, what are the repercussions? Especially if they decide to stay wherever it is that they go to school (and I think that many of the listed countries let you start applying for residency / citizenship while you're in graduate school). While I could see a country like North Korea providing "incentive" for you to return, I can't imagine too many other countries that would be able to hinder the determined individual.

Patriotism and a desire to develop their country will probably motivate many to return. Conversely, I've noticed that for most Iranians, the regime actively encourages their young and educated (but not ideologically / religiously pure) to go overseas. And never come back.

 

[jtbell]

I can't imagine too many other countries that would be able to hinder the determined individual

In order to stay here in the USA, that individual needs at least permanent resident status (a "green card") after his student days are finished and his student visa is no longer valid. I suspect that might be difficult to get if there are pending criminal or financial sanctions in the home country.

 

[ZapperZ]

I'm curious, what are the repercussions? Especially if they decide to stay wherever it is that they go to school (and I think that many of the listed countries let you start applying for residency / citizenship while you're in graduate school).

This is not true. A foreign national simply cannot get permanent residency for no valid reasons. That person must first get an employment, and then must show why he/she has "value" in being given a permanent resident status. This can come in a number of ways (all of which are listed in appropriate agency's webpage).

Most international students who received some form of home-govt. support will go back to their home countries upon graduation. Those support typically involves a mandated years of service. If they don't, persons who signed the guarantees for such support will have to bare the financial burden per the signed contract.

Zz.

 

[MATLABdude]

ZapperZ, I just based that on my understanding of the situation in Canada--many of the international (graduate) students I know apply for and receive permanent residency a few years into their programs, and demonstrate their value via their degrees / work.

 

[ZapperZ]

ZapperZ, I just based that on my understanding of the situation in Canada--many of the international (graduate) students I know apply for and receive permanent residency a few years into their programs, and demonstrate their value via their degrees / work.

Do you think that is a relevant analogy in this thread, considering that the OP clearly was asking about the situation in the US? You were giving an "answer" that doesn't apply to the context at hand. That is highly misleading and irrelevant.

Zz.

 

[Pyrrhus]

jtbell and ZapperZ are right, but as it has been pointed out foreign govt sponsorship is not the only source of funding. Foreign companies may fund graduate studies, and those have different agreements. Also, universities (mostly in USA I suspect) funds also foreign nationals during their graduate studies in the form of RA/TA. Some of the students may come also from wealthy backgrounds. The rich can afford the high tuitions. Other cases are less honorable such as paying off foreign officials to disappear the govt "loan" record.

In terms of residency for foreign govt sponsers, it varies from country to country. I do not know how well it goes, but I know friends who went to the US to study funded by the govt. then moved to Canada for a job as they cannot return to the USA because of breach of agreement. In other cases, foreign nationals may be dual citizens. I do not how common it is in the USA or Canada, but in my country most of my friends are dual citizens (mostly USA, Spain and Italy). Dual-citizens may cheat as they do not need any residency, and thus do not return. Breach of contracts consequences may still apply to their family or the person that signed the guarantees. It is too hard to give a definite picture as the terms of the agreement vary across sponsoring countries.

Anyway, I think we wandered off the original question. Foreign nationals do not have it easy funding their education in the USA. They pay higher fees, and most find sources of funding via govt sponsorship, family funds, company sponsorship or others. Most of these funds come with agreements as nobody (except maybe family) will provide a free education for no reason.

 

[MATLABdude]

Do you think that is a relevant analogy in this thread, considering that the OP clearly was asking about the situation in the US? You were giving an "answer" that doesn't apply to the context at hand. That is highly misleading and irrelevant.

Zz.

Given that this is a General Discussion thread, yes. At no point did the OP mention residency, and that came into the larger context of going "home" (wherever that may be). I was under the impression that PhysicsForums had international scope, and for all the outcry in Canada about the state of education and "is our children learning?" we seem to also attract a large number of foreign students to our educational institutions, at tuitions that are well above the average annual incomes of many of the countries from which they hail.

Misleading? I clearly identified that it was in "some" countries, and this is verifiably so. You may think it irrelevant to bring up the point of citizenship / residency, but when the question of 'Why would students go abroad at such great cost?' comes up, I can assure you that many children of immigrants (such as myself) who had been told, "Study hard--we sacrifice, left family, lives and qualifications behind and work this hard so you can have better opportunities" has that general bulletpoint somewhere in their answer.

So in the larger context, I argue that concepts of residency, citizenship, or just getting the hell out of Dodge absolutely have relevance to this discussion item. Especially when (and again, this may be specific given the laws and public will of my particular country) I've been flat out told by several foreign (graduate) students that they seek to contribute to the knowledge base, and put their talents and abilities to use as Canadians.

My instinctive snarky response was to say, "Perhaps I should preface every post I make here with 'This information valid only in Canada, in this specific province, at this particular university" BUT I see that your country is struggling to grapple with the citizenship issue as a whole, and that it's become a hot-button issue.

 

[ZapperZ]

Given that this is a General Discussion thread, yes. At no point did the OP mention residency, and that came into the larger context of going "home" (wherever that may be). I was under the impression that PhysicsForums had international scope, and for all the outcry in Canada about the state of education and "is our children learning?" we seem to also attract a large number of foreign students to our educational institutions, at tuitions that are well above the average annual incomes of many of the countries from which they hail.

Here's the OP

It's no big secret that there's a huge population of International students who come to America to get a college education. I think at my University something like 30% are international students (may be higher).

I'm wondering though - how do they afford it? Education is expensive for Americans, and we're the richest nation in the world. How are people from developing countries able to come here and afford the most expensive education in the world? Do they somehow get it cheaper than Americans? Is their government paying for it? Could someone explain how its works?

It is clear that the CONTEXT in this case is college education in the US.

The issue isn't the relevancy of "residency". The issue of relevancy is to use examples from other countries as a response, without qualifying that this applies to a particular country when the topic of discussion is clearly about the US. If you had said in the post that I responded to with "Here, in Canada...", I wouldn't have bothered. But you didn't, and thus, it made it appear as if what you wrote applied to the US. THAT is what I termed as misleading.

Using what you have in Canada is as relevant as, say, using what is going on in Namibia.

Zz.

 

[AlephZero]

I think the root cause of the misunderstanding is (or was)

America \ne USA.

 

[qspeechc]

This is a bit off topic, but why are university fees in America so high? Doesn't the government put a lot of money into the universities? I thought the US government put a lot of money into their top universities and that's part of why they are among the best in the world; they can pay to attract the best researchers, build the best labs, fund research etc. Yet on top of that the fees are still very high.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+3" gives tuition fees, but doesn't include residence, books, etc. Most are over $30 000.

 

[ZapperZ]

I think the root cause of the misunderstanding is (or was)

America \ne USA.

That is weak. So when you see on TV people chanting "Death to America!", people in Canada, Mexico, Bolivia, Peru, etc.. were all insulted as well? When was the last time you saw that happened?

Zz.

 

[nismaratwork]

That is weak. So when you see on TV people chanting "Death to America!", people in Canada, Mexico, Bolivia, Peru, etc.. were all insulted as well? When was the last time you saw that happened?

Zz.

Hmmmm...

Can we include "Bizarro" universes/timelines?

 

[Topher925]

I think about 85% of the grad students in the engineering department at my uni are foreign, mostly from china and india. I think most of them just have rich parents that pay for everything. Other students from countries like Kuwait and Bangladesh, the government picks up the tab as long as their grades remain high and they pass their native countries standardized exams.

 

[nismaratwork]

Hmmm... the current king of Bhutan lived in my dorm for a while... international students do tend to be rather... well off or otherwise subsidized.

It was HS... and he was the only one in the school with wiveS. Didn't spend long, but a very grounded and intersting guy...

 

[Pyrrhus]

I think in Bangladesh they do it like Chile and Brazil (students do PhD abroad, but return to country to teach and/or research). Mostly from Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think in Bangladesh they do it like Chile and Brazil (students do PhD abroad, but return to country to teach and/or research). Mostly from Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology.

That's a smart move IMO; you get people with international experience and relationships, but you don't brain-drain your own country. Everybody seems like a winner it that setup.

 

[Pyrrhus]

That's a smart move IMO; you get people with international experience and relationships, but you don't brain-drain your own country. Everybody seems like a winner it that setup.

True, plus it has the side effect that it jump starts the research activity of a country in a specific field. This is why you can find research papers from chilean and brazilian universities and govt. labs.

 

[nismaratwork]

True, plus it has the side effect that it jump starts the research activity of a country in a specific field. This is why you can find research papers from chilean and brazilian universities and govt. labs.

I love that... the international power of science and medicine is a saving grace of globalization above anything else.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think about 85% of the grad students in the engineering department at my uni are foreign, mostly from china and india. I think most of them just have rich parents that pay for everything.

Of the dozens of international grad students I've known, I can only think of two for whom the parents paid their tuition. This may be in part because of my Physics background, and that the majority of the folks I've interacted with came from India. In general, grad students in the sciences to not pay tuition. But I've also known several grad students in Engineering, and nearly all of them found some form of (teaching or research) assistantship which paid their tuition, or some other in-campus work to support them, but not always at the very beginning. Some of them may have paid full tuition for the first semester, but that money usually came from a loan.

I wouldn't have been able to go to grad school if I didn't have a fellowship. And I know plenty others for whom grad school in the US was entirely contingent upon a full scholarship.

 

[nismaratwork]

Of the dozens of international grad students I've known, I can only think of two for whom the parents paid their tuition. This may be in part because of my Physics background, and that the majority of the folks I've interacted with came from India. In general, grad students in the sciences to not pay tuition. But I've also known several grad students in Engineering, and nearly all of them found some form of (teaching or research) assistantship which paid their tuition, or some other in-campus work to support them, but not always at the very beginning. Some of them may have paid full tuition for the first semester, but that money usually came from a loan.

I wouldn't have been able to go to grad school if I didn't have a fellowship. And I know plenty others for whom grad school in the US was entirely contingent upon a full scholarship.

Sounds like a good system, once again a way to enrich this country, and a way to share knowledge without a brain drain here or elsewhere. I imagine housing and books necessitate income unless your government is EXTREMELY generous.