Interpreting the Sine Integral in Physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interpretation of the sine integral and its relationship to the cosine integral within the context of physics. Participants explore the implications of treating these integrals as converging to the delta function, particularly in a "hand-wavy" manner often employed by physicists. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, conceptual interpretations, and the oscillatory nature of the sine and cosine functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the cosine integral can be treated as converging to the delta function, despite the integrals being technically undefined as x approaches infinity.
  • Others challenge this interpretation, emphasizing that the oscillatory nature of the sine and cosine functions means the integrals do not converge in the traditional sense.
  • A participant questions whether a similar "hand-wavy" interpretation exists for the sine integral, suggesting a substitution approach that leads to an unintuitive result of π/(2x).
  • There is a reference to historical tensions between mathematicians and physicists regarding the treatment of such integrals, indicating a long-standing debate over rigor versus practical application.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of the cosine integral and its convergence properties. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the validity of treating these integrals in a "hand-wavy" manner.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of consensus on the definitions and interpretations of the sine and cosine integrals, as well as the implications of treating them as converging to the delta function. The discussion also highlights the dependence on the context in which these integrals are applied.

stevendaryl
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Properly speaking, since sin(x) and cos(x) don't go to zero as x \rightarrow \infty, the following integrals are undefined:

\int_0^{\infty} cos(kx) dk
\int_0^{\infty} sin(kx) dk

However, in the handwavy way of physicists, we can often pretend that the cosine integral "converges" to \delta(x), where \delta(x) is defined via:

\int dx \delta(x) f(x) = f(0)

This interpretation is sort-of justified because for nicely-behaved functions f, we can prove:

\int_{0}^{+\infty} dk (\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} f(x) cos(kx) dx) = f(0)

If we blithely switch the order of integration, then we can write this as:

\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} dx f(x) (\int_{0}^{+\infty} cos(kx) dk) = f(0)

which sort of justifies identifies the inner integral with \delta(x).

My question is: Is there a related, equally hand-wavy interpretation of the sine integral?
 
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stevendaryl said:
However, in the handwavy way of physicists, we can often pretend that the cosine integral "converges" to δ(x)δ(x)\delta(x), where δ(x)δ(x)\delta(x) is defined via:

how you can say that? we know the function oscillates!
 
drvrm said:
how you can say that? we know the function oscillates!

That's why the word "converges" is in scare-quotes. The integral doesn't converge. However, for certain purposes, we can often act as if it converges to the delta function. (And for certain purposes, we can act as if the delta function is actually a function).
 
Last edited:
drvrm said:
how you can say that? we know the function oscillates!
That's typical answer of Mathematicians a century ago !
 
stevendaryl said:
My question is: Is there a related, equally hand-wavy interpretation of the sine integral?
By substituting ##\sin(kx)=\cos(kx-\pi/2)## into the integral of sine and then use the substitution technique to compute the integral as well as the hand-wavy definition of the cosine integral, I got an extremely unintuitive answer of ##\pi/(2x)##.
 
JJacquelin said:
That's typical answer of Mathematicians a century ago !
And still the answer in the ongoing war between mathematicians and physicists!
 
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