News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

[edward]

It could be that Russia has an ulterior motive for supporting Assad. It also could it be that Russia is only defending Assad in a small part of Syria where Russia has a military asset.

The Syrian government also allowed the Soviet Union to build a resupply station at the port of Tartus, which is now Russia's sole remaining naval base in the Middle East and on the Mediterranean sea.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-22

 

[russ_watters]

Yes, my interpretation was that we were supposed to find the news that we've been investigating how to undermine Assad for 10 years shocking, when in reality it is an entirely normal thing. The issue of my use of the word "dictatorship" (lazy? Perhaps) is besides the point.

It's been my perception that Wikileaks, more than anything else, is a misplaced outrage generator.

 

[edward]

Here is the article I was looking for in regards to Russia leaving Assad in power of only a small portion of Syria.

President Obama says Russia is doomed to fail in the Syrian quagmire. But Russia is not trying to reconquer the country for Assad. It is consolidating a rump Syrian state in the roughly 20 percent of the country he now controls, the Alawite areas stretching north and west from Damascus through Latakia and encompassing the Russian naval base at Tartus

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...643b98-78e5-11e5-bc80-9091021aeb69_story.html

Then again this is only an opinion piece from Charles Krauthammer. Could the hammer be correct? It does sound logical.

 

[Czcibor]

Yes, my interpretation was that we were supposed to find the news that we've been investigating how to undermine Assad for 10 years shocking, when in reality it is an entirely normal thing. The issue of my use of the word "dictatorship" (lazy? Perhaps) is besides the point.

It's been my perception that Wikileaks, more than anything else, is a misplaced outrage generator.

I personally suspect that there is a high demand for shocking secret news, so people settle with a substitute. I can't explain otherwise why people in the UK were excited by Prince Charles letters or in Poland about "waiter conspiracy" - tape recordings of our politicians.

 

[Astronuc]

Defense secretary says US is retooling fight against IS
http://news.yahoo.com/us-defense-chief-sees-changes-battle-islamic-state-141722374.html

Russia pounds Syrian rebels, then reaches out to opposition
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-pounds-syrian-rebels-then-reaches-opposition-211506422.html

What a mess.U.S. weighs special forces in Syria, helicopters in Iraq
http://news.yahoo.com/u-weighs-special-forces-syria-helicopters-iraq-020248563.html

Upping the ante.

 

[lisab]

I don't think the US has a problem with dictatorships.. They support\undermine them when there is a geopolitical\economical reason to do so...

Countries don't have friends - only interests.

No matter where you live, this is true.

 

[Astronuc]

Countries don't have friends - only interests.

Well - friends when interests are mutual, and not, when interests are conflicting or competing.

 

[Czcibor]

Those topic become somewhat intermingled, like in a good thriller:

Any idea to which topic one should put: "Ukrainians who through open source intelligence are gathering and publishing data about Russian involvement in Syria"?

https://informnapalm.org/en/

They are even as nice to put names, ranks and photos of fighter pilots:
https://informnapalm.org/en/syria-k...ics-of-russian-air-force-officers-disclosure/

 

[Astronuc]

Those topic become somewhat intermingled, like in a good thriller:

Any idea to which topic one should put: "Ukrainians who through open source intelligence are gathering and publishing data about Russian involvement in Syria"

It could go in the thread on Russian and Chinese military reaching out. But it's part of the mess in Syria.Meanwhile - the turmoil in the Middle East and North Africa is motivating folks to migrate to Europe. Daesh is but one factor. Others include internal conflicts like that in Syria, and dysfunctional governments, like the one in Iraq.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/culture-clash-isis-could-send-101500405.html

Just this week, Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi complained about the dire fiscal situation in the country. Speaking on national TV, he said: "We make 59 trillion Iraqi dinars from exporting oil. When we take the cost of exportation out, that leaves us with 45 trillion. When we take the cost of serving the debts, we have 40 trillion left. The state employees' salaries and pensions cost us 50 trillion. How do we spend on war, health, education, agriculture, services, poverty and others?"

 

[mheslep]

Are there any right now? I really wish I could convince myself they exist, even if we have to stretch the term "moderate" a little bit.

Territory held by non-ISIS affiliated Sunnis? Of course, to include large areas of Iraq and Syria, not to mention the Sunni controlled nation-states. Or perhaps I misunderstand your point?

This sounds more like a fantasy. If by "decades ago" you're alluding to the first gulf war, then the Arabic/Sunni contribution was tiny, almost symbolic, compared to the American forces...

Kissinger is referring to the cold war period (he references 1973 in the essay) in which the US maintained western friendly states, as opposed to Soviet to client states, by arms deals among other means. Jordan and Saudi Arabia come to mind. As to scale, opposing ISIS has no comparison with the attack on the nation state of Iraq under Saddam which at the time was, I believe, the world's 5th largest army. How many tank factories has ISIS, or how many can they buy and have shipped in through a deep water port?

As to wishful thinking, let's apply context. How wishful is Kissenger's proposal with historic precdents, against the US's current non-air campaign air campaign and total US troop pull out from Iraq?

"Another problem is that neither Egypt nor Jordan have a huge incentive to fight"

Perhaps not "huge", yet, and hence the arms deal proposal by Kissenger. But Jordan has already attacked ISIS at least once with the King in the cockpit. Many ME states have reason to oppose ISIS, but without backup they might feel they're punching out of their weight class to conduct a foreign campaign against a guerrilla army.

Arms agreements and closer ties to the US won't cut it, and Arabic nationalistic sentiment isn't particularly high...

Debatable. Perhaps not, but by no means do I grant that arms deal motivations are simply wishful thinking and dismissed by hand waiving. As to closer ties to the US, well, unfortunately this US administration has done nearly everything it can to make closer ties to the US worth less than before for those in the US (faux red line threats, withdrawal of all Iraqi support, encouragement of Iranian shias, ...)

The Russians need to be convinced of that as well...must be guarantees that the Russians

In the present reality I see no guarantees obtainable from the Russians.

 

[fargoth]

Territory held by non-ISIS Sunnis? Of course, to include Iraq and Syria, not to mention the Sunni controlled nation-states. Or perhaps I misunderstand your point?

For some reason you seem to think that ISIS is the only problematic group over there... I think HossamCFD meant rebels who are not jihadist salafis or just plain terrorists ala PKK.

 

[HossamCFD]

Territory held by non-ISIS affiliated Sunnis? Of course, to include large areas of Iraq and Syria, not to mention the Sunni controlled nation-states. Or perhaps I misunderstand your point?

I think HossamCFD meant rebels who are not jihadist salafis

Yes exactly. Excluding the Syrian kurds and the FSA, it seems all other rebels are in alliance with Al-Nusra front and other Jihadist groups that can't really be called moderate. This of course only applies to Syria. The situation in Iraq is different.

Kissenger is referring to the cold war period in which the US maintained western friendly states, as opposed to Soviet to client states, by arms deals among other means.

I see. Well in this case it is less of a precedent. The Arab states friendly to the US were never "enlisted" to actually fight anyone in the cold war as far as I'm aware.

As to wishful thinking, let's apply context. How wishful is Kissenger's proposal with historic precdents, against the US's current non-air campaign air campaign and total US troop pull out from Iraq?

I agree. The current strategy doesn't seem to lead anywhere.

I don't mean to dismiss Kissenger's proposal entirely. I'm just extremely sceptical that Arab states may take a leading role in a major offensive against ISIS that involves ground troops.

 

[mheslep]

The USA Today has a piece detailing the 16 times the US President has stated there would be "no boots on the ground in Syria". The earliest such statement, from August 2013, is typical:

"In no event are we considering any kind of military action that would involve boots on the ground, that would involve a long-term campaign. But we are looking at the possibility of a limited, narrow act that would help make sure that not only Syria, but others around the world, understand that the international community cares about maintaining this chemical weapons ban and norm. So again, I repeat, we're not considering any open-ended commitment. We're not considering any boots-on-the-ground approach."

The USA story was prompted by yesterday's announcement from the Obama administration of boots on the ground in Syria, specifically "less than 50" special forces are authorized to fight ISIS in Syria. The common sense observer might say this is a change in administration policy, but press secretary Earnest says no, the mission has "not changed". Why can't the Obama administration manage the least little bit of candor on Syria and ISIS? If they can not state their initial approach was ineffective, then at least say something like, conditions have changed, so we changed our approach? This Orwellian double think, i.e. "nothing to see here, move along", is destructive in numerous ways. It is disrespectful of the armed forces men and women sent into harms way there, encourages others such as allies to consider ISIS a non-problem, and, perhaps most importantly, avoids having the discussion about why those US boots are necessary (and I think they are).

 

[Astronuc]

Indeed - Analysis: Obama crosses own red line with Syrian deployment
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-syria-deployment-obama-crosses-own-red-line-071956227--politics.html

 

[nsaspook]

The USA Today has a piece detailing the 16 times the US President has stated there would be "no boots on the ground in Syria". The earliest such statement, from August 2013, is typical:

But it was the location, not the number, that elevated the significance of his Syrian decision. It was the first time the U.S. has openly sent forces into Syria, expanding the geographic reach of Obama's military efforts in the Middle East.

He's just making it official about what's been happening for a long time in Syria.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...nd-isis-isil-daesh.757697/page-8#post-4830197

 

[mheslep]

He's just making it official about what's been happening for a long time in Syria.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...nd-isis-isil-daesh.757697/page-8#post-4830197

There is nothing trivial about what you suggest, without a reference, which would directly contradict a dozen Obama statements about Syria. Source please.

 

[Astronuc]

Islamic State takes Syrian town as fighting looks set to intensify
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-takes-over-syrian-town-homs-province-084327922.html

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Islamic State fighters drove Syrian government forces from a town in the west of the country on Sunday, as fighting looked set to intensify despite a flurry of international diplomacy and talks between regional rivals.

The jihadists' advance came even as Russian warplanes and Syrian forces supported by them stepped up assaults against insurgents in west and northwest Syria, and the United States separately sought to increase pressure on Islamic State.

 

[HossamCFD]

After the well deserved solidarity with Paris, it seems appropriate to mention another ISIS atrocity that killed 41 people, this time in Beirut, one day before the Paris attacks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34805466

The blasts on Thursday evening struck in a busy shopping street. More than 200 people were wounded - many of them seriously, Health Minister Wael Abou Faour said.

The army said that two men wearing suicide vests carried out the attack. The first bomber detonated his explosive vest outside a Shia mosque, while the second blew himself up inside a nearby bakery.

ISIS issued a statement:

"After the apostates gathered in the area, one of the knights of martyrdom detonated his explosive belt in the midst of them," the statement said. It did not refer to Hezbollah's involvement in Syria.

Too much pain is caused by those lunatics.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

IMO Excellent article.

 

[HossamCFD]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

IMO Excellent article.

I agree. It's probably why that's the third time it was posted in this thread

 

[fargoth]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

IMO Excellent article.

I wonder why western countries keep those who wish to join ISIS against their will and confiscate their passports... I would have even helped them to get off my country and informed the Interpol so that they would be denied entrance to any proper country.
If you insist on preventing ISIS from growing, you could use these people as leads to the whereabouts of ISIS boot camps and infrastructure... Keeping them as forced residents is just begging for trouble.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...is-stronghold-of-raqqa-in-syria-a6737631.html

https://www.rt.com/news/322436-russia-strikes-syria-putin/

 

[Astronuc]

IS militants dig in, anticipating assault on Syria's Raqqa
http://news.yahoo.com/militants-dig-anticipating-assault-syrias-raqqa-200440454.html

The fighters are hiding in civilian neighborhoods and preventing anyone from fleeing, activists said.

Hiding behind civilians and non-combatants. Shameful!Russian military is cooperating with French forces in Syria.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-minister-attacks-us-policy-syria-141642352.html

 

[Borg]

Hiding behind civilians and non-combatants. Shameful!

I wouldn't expect anything less from them.

 

[mheslep]

I wonder how the USA will still find a way to demonize Putin even though he is probably more effective against Isis than the US.

I had read where ISIS bombed a Russian passenger aircraft, killing all aboard. Is that a sign of effective response to ISIS? I read where Putin's missile batteries have shot down other passenger aircraft in Ukraine, killing all aboard. Is that what you call the demonization of Putin?

 

[mheslep]

In a recent soccer game in Turkey, the crowd was asked to observe a moment of silence for the ISIS attacks in Paris which killed more than a hundred people. Result:



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/s...-allahu-akbar-paris-tribute-article-1.2438142

 

[HossamCFD]

In a recent soccer game in Turkey, the crowd was asked to observe a moment of silence for the ISIS attacks in Paris which killed more than a hundred people. Result:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/s...-allahu-akbar-paris-tribute-article-1.2438142

Very insensitive indeed, but there might be more to it
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html

However, comments on social media sites have suggested that the boos were not to disrespect those who had died in the attacks - but more to do with the hypocrisy of the Western world.

International teams did not hold a minute's silence after the Ankara terror attack in October. More than 100 people died in the Turkish capital after two bombs were set off outside the Ankara Central railway station on 11 October; Turkish fans also booed during a minute's silence of their game against Iceland on 13 October.

Abs Pangader Actually, they're chanting "Sehitler olmez, vatan bolunmez." Which means "Martyrs never die, the nation won't be divided." This is a common slogan thrown in remembrance of Turkish soldiers who fell victim to terrorism. In Turkey, there is rarely a minute of silence that isn't interrupted by this chant. Whether its a minute of silence for a Turkish catastrophe, or something else that happened globally, this always happens.

I don't speak Turkish so I don't know how plausible that claim is. Perhaps a Turkish PFer can shed some light on this. I definitely couldn't distinguish any 'Allahu Akbar' chants in the video though as the article you posted states.

 

[mheslep]

Very insensitive indeed, but there might be more to it
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html

Now I'm also unsure of the explanation for the reaction. Thanks for checking for alternative explanations. 400 people were killed or injured in the Ankara bombing.

 

[Astronuc]

Why U.S. Efforts to Cut Off Islamic State’s Funds Have Failed
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-u-efforts-cut-off-090013562.html

Russia seems to targeting Daesh's oil infrastructure.Islamic State group making determined effort for chemical weapons, Iraqi, US officials say
http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-us-officials-working-produce-152535005.html

Good reason to take out their petrochemical plants.

 

[Q_Goest]

Russian bombs with “For Paris” written on them, dropped on ISIS. Perhaps it is time to start thanking ISIS for being the center for all that is evil in the world and for bringing the rest of us closer together.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-pounds-jihadists-paris-bombs-211924310.html