Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

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In summary, the Iraqi government, under severe military pressure from insurgents, is apparently on the verge of collapse. They requested US military aid, but, were refused. Is it just me, or does anyone else find this disturbing?
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  • #947
How Costly It Can Be For Muslims To Speak Out Against Daesh or al-Qaeda
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/02/03/3745720/syria-iraq-yemen-isis-kills-muslim/
“The Islamic State has executed Sunni clerics in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen, as part of an effort to kill any religious figures who pose a threat to the group’s narrative or ideological control,” noted an intel brief from the Soufan Group, . . .
Meanwhile - Fallujah is surrounded by Iraqi forces while Daesh members run wild in the city
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...65e568-c3a0-11e5-b933-31c93021392a_story.htmlAnd what the Syrian civil war has done to Homs
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dramatic-drone-footage-shows-devastation-of-homs-syria/
Homs is 'bombed out' like many European cities were in World War II.
 
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  • #948
Krylov said:
Former Dutch soldier may face charges for killing IS jihadis:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/83438-2/

Quote from the article:

‘Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.

I sleep a lot better knowing that the Dutch authorities are watching over IS fighters' precious lives.

Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.

More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:
‘According to Amnesty International, the YPG may have been involved in driving civilians from their homes in the north of Syria last year and then destroying them,’ the statement said.
 
  • #949
jack476 said:
Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.
Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.
jack476 said:
More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:
I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.
 
  • #950
Krylov said:
Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.

So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.

I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.

The Amnesty quote is actually from your article. The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.
 
  • #951
jack476 said:
So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.

There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them. If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?
jack476 said:
The Amnesty quote is actually from your article.
Yes, it is. I did not suggest that it was not.
jack476 said:
The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.
I don't think that is what the Dutch justice department is primarily after. In any case, at least part of the investigation is based on the suspicion that Jitse killed IS fighters, see the quote from the article that I gave in post #943
Krylov said:
'Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.
as well as

'Jitse A was picked up in Arnhem and is being investigated for his role in killing Islamic State jihadis while fighting with YPG forces', the public prosecution department said in a statement.
 
  • #952
Syrians mass on Turkish border as regime advances
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-regime-forces-fresh-gains-south-monitor-103050248.html
Up to 20,000 stranded at Syria border with Turkey: UN
http://news.yahoo.com/20-000-stranded-syria-border-turkey-un-160906682.html

Tens of thousands of civilians have joined an exodus to escape fierce fighting involving government forces who severed the rebels' main supply route into Syria's second city.
Civilians are caught between homicidal Daesh and apparently equally homicidal Syrian government, which has support from Russia.
 
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  • #953
Krylov said:
There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.

Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.

It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.

It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them.

I don't know that throwing more insurgents into the mix is going to be especially helpful. And given that there has been very little attention to groups like YPG recently, I doubt that they're actually doing a whole lot.

If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?

Are we not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria
 
  • #954
jack476 said:
Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.
There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.
jack476 said:
It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.
I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.
jack476 said:
It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.
Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.
jack476 said:
As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.
 
  • #955
Krylov said:
There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.

And that's the kind of society you end up with when people start to decide to take the jobs of law enforcement and national security into their own hands.

I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.

As it stands, what this group has been accused of involvement in is not the sort of thing I would call "contributing". The purpose of this investigation is to clarify whether or not civilians have the right to volunteer to fight for non-government military groups. If they rule in his favor and authorize civilians to join YPG to volunteer to help stabilize Syria (and I'm not necessarily saying that they shouldn't) then no harm done, because that way it's all above-board.

The accusation of involvement with violence against civilians also really should be investigated. Would you prefer that it just go ignored?

Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.

And do you think that's true of the average self-appointed militia fighter? YPG has also been known to recruit children. There's no oversight of their training practices, so we can't know for sure that it's a good idea to be letting them send civilians into combat.

As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.

In cooperation with, and with the authorization of, those countries.
 
  • #956
Hard to believe no one posted about the "cease fire" "cessation of hostilities":
World powers have agreed to seek a nationwide "cessation of hostilities" in Syria to begin in a week's time, after talks in Munich, Germany.

The halt will not apply to the battle against jihadist groups Islamic State (IS) and al-Nusra Front.

The 17-member International Syria Support Group (ISSG) also agreed to accelerate and expand aid deliveries.

The announcement comes as the Syrian army, backed by Russian air strikes, advances in Aleppo province.

The move threatens to encircle tens of thousands of civilians in rebel-held parts of the major city of Aleppo.

The Syrian government has not yet responded, though a key rebel coalition welcomed the announcement.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35556783
So...near as I can tell, it doesn't involve any of the primary combatants and Russia is accelerating airstrikes since. So.. is this just a deal where everyone agrees to get out of Russia's way while Putin helps Assad defeat the rebels but everyone pretends it is a mutual "cease-fire" so they can quit the fight and save face instead of looking like they are just quitting?

If we never intended to do more than put in a token effort to fight, regardless of if it actually helped or not, just to make it look like we were trying, does it still count as a loss?
 
  • #958
Syrian government and "main opposition" agree to the terms of the cessation of hostilities.

ISIS, Al Nusra, and basically any Islamist group who's too close to Al Nusra are not included.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35639970

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35643151

The Syrian government and the main opposition umbrella group say they accept the terms of a deal to cease hostilities from Saturday.

The government said it would halt "combat operations" in line with the plan announced by the US and Russia.

But the opposition said its acceptance depended on government forces ending sieges and air strikes of civilians.

The deal will not apply to the two main jihadist groups in Syria, Islamic State (IS) and the rival al-Nusra Front.

Do all parties agree with the exclusion list?

No. Russia, Iran and the Syrian government regard Ahrar al-Sham and Jaish al-Islam as terrorist groups.

Ahrar al-Sham is likely to be excluded from the ceasefire, given its alliance with al-Nusra in Aleppo and Idlib.

But Jaish al-Islam, which controls large areas of the Damascus countryside, has closer ties to the broader Syrian opposition, and any attack on its positions might therefore endanger the ceasefire.
Things seem too fragile for anyone to be optimistic.
 
  • #959
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  • #960
  • #961
  • #962
Istanbul bomber identified as militant with Daesh links
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-confirms-third-citizen-killed-istanbul-attack-100334468.html [Broken]
ISTANBUL (AP) — Turkey's interior minister on Sunday identified the suicide bomber who killed four foreign tourists in Istanbul as a militant with links to the Islamic State group.

Minister Efkan Ala said the bomber was Turkish citizen Mehmet Ozturk, who was born in 1992 in Gaziantep province, which borders Syria. He said Ozturk wasn't on any list of wanted suspects and five other people were detained as part of the investigation.
Apparently not Kurdish.
 
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  • #965
you got the power when you can decide and ignore the citizens. In France our president was elected after he promised to apply several things. He decided after to apply the opposite. He only said I am elected four 5 years and i will go on. Only 15% would vote for him now. The problem in our democracies is that the candidates are allowed to lie before. I am not sure to vote anymore.
 
  • #966
naima said:
The problem in our democracies is that the candidates are allowed to lie before. I am not sure to vote anymore.

Without a democracy, you would be even less able to effect any change. Kings did not need to care what people want.

BTW, voting is the least effective of the methods available in democracy to effect some changes (one vote is not really important). People who really want something to change start publishing articles about politics, organize demonstrations, join a party, or create a new one.
 
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  • #967
But in the reality those who will decide for you will always belong to the same priviligied clan.
 
  • #968
naima said:
But in the reality those who will decide for you will always belong to the same priviligied clan.

Obama is a counterexample.
I think you are just looking for a way to justify your "I'm unhappy about current situation but won't actually do anything to change it" attitude.
 
  • #969
nikkkom said:
Obama is a counterexample...
No family in politics, but many US Presidents meet that standard, including all three GOP candidates. Otherwise, Obama's background includes elite private prep school, Ivy League college and law school, Chicago machine politician and organizer.
 
  • #970
French journalist infiltrates jihadist cell for six months
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-journalist-infiltrates-jihadist-cell-six-months-031631439.html
"One of the main lessons was that I never saw any Islam in this affair. No will to improve the world. Only lost, frustrated, suicidal, easily manipulated youths.

"They had the misfortune of being born in the era that the Islamic State exists. It is very sad. They are youngsters who are looking for something and that is what they found."
Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.
 
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  • #971
Astronuc said:
Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.

There probably aren't any religious elements around because most of them are too functionally illiterate and can't understand their book enough to even preach, even if they wanted to do so. The leaders seem to be educated though and probably count on those young men having low intelligence and little confidence about themselves to begin with.
 
  • #972
Astronuc said:
...

Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.
Like the leadership of many cults.
 
  • #973
The war against the Islamic State hits hurdles just as the U.S. military gears up
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...3897f8-10ac-11e6-a9b5-bf703a5a7191_story.html
Muslim leaders deny ISIS’ religious claims, stoking group’s anger
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...y-isis-religious-claims-stoking-groups-anger/

Death threats are a sign that Muslim religious leaders have antagonized the Islamic State, and their growing influence also contradicts those who claim that Muslim leaders have been silent in the fight against violent extremism.
 
  • #976
Why ISIS Sees an Elderly Priest as a Threat to the Caliphate
http://observer.com/2016/07/why-isis-sees-an-elderly-priest-as-a-threat-to-the-caliphate/
Their targeting of Jews is as clear as it is for any other terror group from Hamas to al-Qaeda to the mullahs in Tehran: they want to wipe Israel off the map and seize Al-Aqsa for Muslims. ISIS’ war in the Sinai, infiltration in Gaza and its goal of carving “pathways” through Jordan and Lebanon are critical cogs in their strategy to be the ones to “liberate” Jerusalem. According to an ISIS e-book, “Black Flags from Palestine,” they think the final confrontation with the antichrist will be at Ben Gurion International Airport.

When noting ISIS’ broader attacks against Christians, recent events have grimly underscored the group’s special targeting of Catholics.

The sacking of Rome and the Holy See, after all, is essential to their apocalyptic game plan.
Daesh and their affiliates achieve new lows in depravity.
 
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  • #977
Reading through old posts in thread ...
TheAustrian said:
Maybe the best solution would be to split Iraq in three. One piece for Kurds, one piece for Sunnis, and one piece for the Shi'ite people. Of course I think it should happen at an international negotiation table with the involvement of: Kurds, Sunni Iraqis, Shi'ite Iraqis, Iran, Syria, USA, Russia and China.
klimatos said:
It worked in India, but it was very, very bloody...
Yes, bloody. One could just as well say the partition of India "is", but that it did not "work".

Estimates of the dead vary from 200,000 (the contemporary British figure) to two million (a later Indian estimate) but that somewhere around a million people died is now widely accepted.

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/butalia-silence.html
 
  • #978
 
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  • #979
What Life is Like for the Children of War-Torn Aleppo
https://www.yahoo.com/news/life-children-war-torn-aleppo-113321765.html
The bloodied, dust-covered face of Omran Daqneesh, the five-year-old Syrian boy recovered from the rubble left by an airstrike this week, has shocked the world.

Omran has become a symbol of the ongoing civil war in Syria, but he is just one of an estimated 75,000 children fighting to survive in eastern Aleppo, the divided and once-great city at the heart of the struggle between the regime of Bashar Assad and the rebels attempting to oust him.
Pro-government forces aided by Russian air support, make life even more difficult for the 300,000 Syrians still living there.

http://time.com/4457417/aleppo-boy-ambulance-omran-syria/
 
  • #980
http://www.wral.com/us-says-it-may-have-struck-syrian-troops-while-targeting-is/16022599/ [Broken]" ... unintentionally ... ?"
 
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<h2>1. What is the cause of the unrest in Iraq and Syria?</h2><p>The unrest in Iraq and Syria can be attributed to a combination of factors, including political and religious divisions, economic disparity, and external influence. The invasion of Iraq by the United States in 2003, the Arab Spring uprisings in 2011, and the ongoing Syrian Civil War have all contributed to the current state of unrest in the region.</p><h2>2. What is the difference between ISIS, ISIL, and Daesh?</h2><p>ISIS, ISIL, and Daesh are all acronyms for the same extremist group that has gained control over parts of Iraq and Syria. ISIS stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, while ISIL stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Daesh is an Arabic term that is used to refer to the group in a derogatory manner. The group has also been referred to as the Islamic State (IS) or the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS).</p><h2>3. How has ISIS/ISIL/Daesh been able to gain power in Iraq and Syria?</h2><p>ISIS/ISIL/Daesh has been able to gain power in Iraq and Syria due to a combination of factors, including the power vacuum created by the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, the ongoing civil war in Syria, and the group's ability to exploit sectarian and ethnic divisions in the region. Additionally, the group has been able to gain resources and recruits through its control of oil fields and its use of social media to spread its message.</p><h2>4. What impact has the unrest in Iraq and Syria had on the region and the world?</h2><p>The unrest in Iraq and Syria has had a significant impact on the region and the world. It has resulted in the displacement of millions of people, destabilized neighboring countries, and led to a humanitarian crisis. The rise of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh has also posed a threat to global security, with the group carrying out terrorist attacks in various countries.</p><h2>5. What is being done to address the situation in Iraq and Syria?</h2><p>The international community has taken various measures to address the situation in Iraq and Syria, including military intervention, providing humanitarian aid, and supporting diplomatic efforts to find a resolution to the conflicts. The United Nations has also been actively involved in efforts to provide aid and facilitate peace talks. However, the situation remains complex and ongoing efforts are necessary to achieve stability and peace in the region.</p>

1. What is the cause of the unrest in Iraq and Syria?

The unrest in Iraq and Syria can be attributed to a combination of factors, including political and religious divisions, economic disparity, and external influence. The invasion of Iraq by the United States in 2003, the Arab Spring uprisings in 2011, and the ongoing Syrian Civil War have all contributed to the current state of unrest in the region.

2. What is the difference between ISIS, ISIL, and Daesh?

ISIS, ISIL, and Daesh are all acronyms for the same extremist group that has gained control over parts of Iraq and Syria. ISIS stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, while ISIL stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Daesh is an Arabic term that is used to refer to the group in a derogatory manner. The group has also been referred to as the Islamic State (IS) or the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS).

3. How has ISIS/ISIL/Daesh been able to gain power in Iraq and Syria?

ISIS/ISIL/Daesh has been able to gain power in Iraq and Syria due to a combination of factors, including the power vacuum created by the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, the ongoing civil war in Syria, and the group's ability to exploit sectarian and ethnic divisions in the region. Additionally, the group has been able to gain resources and recruits through its control of oil fields and its use of social media to spread its message.

4. What impact has the unrest in Iraq and Syria had on the region and the world?

The unrest in Iraq and Syria has had a significant impact on the region and the world. It has resulted in the displacement of millions of people, destabilized neighboring countries, and led to a humanitarian crisis. The rise of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh has also posed a threat to global security, with the group carrying out terrorist attacks in various countries.

5. What is being done to address the situation in Iraq and Syria?

The international community has taken various measures to address the situation in Iraq and Syria, including military intervention, providing humanitarian aid, and supporting diplomatic efforts to find a resolution to the conflicts. The United Nations has also been actively involved in efforts to provide aid and facilitate peace talks. However, the situation remains complex and ongoing efforts are necessary to achieve stability and peace in the region.

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