News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

[HossamCFD]

I remain circumspect of non-first-hand reporting.. .

Fair enough. I have posted above about the HRW report confirming the torture to death of 6,786 detainees by Assad's government. The report relied entirely on first-hand reports of former prisoners, defectors, and families of the disappeared (including the 14 year old that was tortured to death for having an anti-Assad song on his phone). The evidence for the barrel-bomb attacks is also entirely dependent on first hand reports compiled by the UN and the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights among other organisations.

I am genuinely curious as to whether you think all/most of this is fabricated. And if you acknowledge some of it, to what extent do you think this is justifiable and at what point would you start 'faulting him'.

 

[jim hardy]

Fair enough. I have posted above about the HRW report confirming the torture to death of 6,786 detainees by Assad's government.

Thanks.

I did some searching. HRW seems to be substantiating "Caesar" the anonymous defector who brought out photos of death factories.
Here's an article by a well credentialed reporter , that i'd not seen before last night
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/assad-war-crimes-syria-torture-caesar-hospital
and i find very credible

Since going into exile, Caesar has turned inward, according to several of his closest associates. He has stopped talking with some of his key supporters and will not speak with journalists. He has postponed several meetings with prosecutors in the U.K. and Spain, who would like to use his information to bring war-crimes charges against Syrian officials. But Vanity Fair, in an exhaustive investigation, has managed to piece together Caesar’s story with the help of his lawyer and confidantes, including members of Syrian opposition groups, war-crimes investigators, intelligence operatives, and Obama-administration insiders. All of these people have their own agendas, but their accounts reinforce one another. These individuals have also helped to furnish documents and provide entrée to medical-staff members who worked in the hospitals where Ceasar photographed—on the very wards that are at the center of the Assad regime’s brutally repressive machinery.

nobody can defend the behavior he describes ,

believe me I'm chewing on this

old jim

 

[jim hardy]

at what point would you start 'faulting him'.

when he fails to clean up his ranks

 

[mheslep]

when he fails to clean up his ranks

Which implies Assad did not order the torture, the mass executions and chemical attacks; that instead the "ranks" were acting independently. Why do you think this is the case? Especially given the dozens of reported chemical attacks, I can't imagine a scenario where those kinds of weapons are repeatedly made available to rogue Syrian Army elements without Assad's authority.

 

[HossamCFD]

Given the scale and the duration of Assad's crimes during the civil war, as well as how well they're reported, I don't in all honesty understand how he can deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[nsaspook]

Given the scale and the duration of Assad's crimes during the civil war, as well as how well they're reported, I don't in all honesty understand how he can deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There is no doubt Assad is a murdering 'secular' bastard who's main reason for support is being better than those rebels who want to replace him but there are limiting factors (Russian military forces stabilizing his control of Syria being the primary one) to his crimes currently. I would prefer not to see another failed state due to western intervention like Libya where ISIS 'reloaded' can reconstruct their plans for world-wide attacks from radical Islamic groups.

I don't expect freedom and democracy from him but most groups that want to replace him can't speak this lie without being considered anti-Islamic and then targeted for death.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/multimedia/100000004053567/assad-says-syria-should-be-secular.html

 

[Dotini]

Military to Military
Seymour M. Hersh on US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war

"Barack Obama’s repeated insistence that Bashar al-Assad must leave office – and that there are ‘moderate’ rebel groups in Syria capable of defeating him – has in recent years provoked quiet dissent, and even overt opposition, among some of the most senior officers on the Pentagon’s Joint Staff. Their criticism has focused on what they see as the administration’s fixation on Assad’s primary ally, Vladimir Putin. In their view, Obama is captive to Cold War thinking about Russia and China, and hasn’t adjusted his stance on Syria to the fact both countries share Washington’s anxiety about the spread of terrorism in and beyond Syria; like Washington, they believe that Islamic State must be stopped."
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military

 

[HossamCFD]

There is no doubt Assad is a murdering 'secular' bastard who's main reason for support is being better than those rebels who want to replace him

Whether the west should ally with Assad is a somewhat different discussion. I did argue against it a couple of times in this thread and I accept that many people have a different opinion. What matters to me at this point is that we acknowledge the crimes committed by his troops and his personal responsibility for them. If governments in the west are willing to cooperate with him as a lesser of the two evils then that is their business. I personally think it's the wrong move, and even from a pragmatic point of view it won't work because most of the rebels who are fighting ISIS on the ground do regard Assad as a bigger threat. In any case I accept that my view is in the minority, but I'll always try and argue against cleansing Assad from the moral responsibility of his crimes and regarding him as 'reasonable'.

I would prefer not to see another failed state due to western intervention like Libya

This I don't agree with. The west didn't start the civil war in Syria, and if anything it was the west non-intervention until it was too late that can be partly blamed for the huge death toll. Regarding Libya, I do think the west did the right thing and I wonder what would you do differently? Imagine Qaddafi was left to bomb Ben-ghazi to smithereens, as he attempted to before the no-fly zone was implemented. How could that have resulted in a better outcome. Yes Libya is a failed state but tens of thousands of lives were saved by the western intervention, and I don't think it's realistic at all to assume that without western intervention Libya would've been better off.

 

[russ_watters]

I was addressing your point that one should have a variety of sources...

For TV news i watch more ABC and PBS than anything else , they're the only two local stations we have. IMHO Frontline's reporting consistently stands out as 'fair and balanced'.

Fair enough - I was getting the impression that you only consulted outside the mainstream sources. Your opinions seemed to imply it. So, do you have anything to say about what we were discussing? You've said a lot of flat, provocative things and then just let them sit there. It's kinda bizarre.

And for the record, I got through 7:40 of the Assad interview before I had to turn it off. There were a number of chuckle-worthy (cringe-worthy) moments, but the one I bailed after was where he said something to the effect of that if his people want him to leave office they could just vote him out. If by "came across as very reasonable" you meant that he said all the right things, sure -- but you do realize that much of what he said was nonsense, right?

 

[jim hardy]

the one I bailed after was where he said something to the effect of that if his people want him to leave office they could just vote him out. If by "came across as very reasonable" you meant that he said all the right things, sure -- but you do realize that much of what he said was nonsense, right?

no actually i didnt carry that impression away from the interview. It's been a while now, perhaps i'll revisit it. I'd read someplace, probably Wikipedia, that in his early years Assad introduced 'progressive reforms' , but factions sprang back to life and violence restarted. His father was a ruthless strongman who'd barrel bomb a neighborhood if rockets were coming out of it. Assad went back to what he'd seen work as a young man, why i don't know not having been there.
Then we started arming the rebels and ISIS showed up not long after, with our armaments..
What're you going to do with ideology that equates tolerance with weakness?Heck yeah i think we should have left it alone. Now we need to help Putin help Assad stomp out isis. If Nuremberg trials are warranted after that dust settles, so be it.

 

[nsaspook]

This I don't agree with. The west didn't start the civil war in Syria, and if anything it was the west non-intervention until it was too late that can be partly blamed for the huge death toll.

My feeling on the civil war in Syria are pretty much the same as this article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...yria-from-pre-civil-war-to-post-assad/281989/

The United States has a long history of covertly aiding insurgents in Syria, and has engaged in propaganda, espionage, and various sorts of dirty tricks. The rebels, naturally, have regarded the aid they’ve received as insufficient, while the government has regarded it as a virtual act of war. Both are right: it has not been on a scale that has enabled the rebels to win, but it is a form of action that, had another country engaged in it, seeking to overthrow the government, any American or European administration would have regarded as an act of war under international law.
...
Having said that, I want also to emphasize that there is no doubt that, however much they disagree among themselves, which they obviously do, all the rebels regard the conflict in Syria as fundamentally a religious issue. Particularly for the native rebels, as I have pointed out, the religious issue is overlaid by ethnic complexities. It would be a mistake to regard the Syrian war, as some outside observers have done, as a fight between the forces of freedom and tyranny. If the opponents of the regime are fighting for some form of democracy, they have yet to make their voices heard.

 

[mheslep]

... i think we should have left it alone.

Left what alone in Syria? The (thin) US air attacks on ISIS I Syria, that started very recently?

Now we need to help Putin help Assad stomp out isis.

Now? Why is it that the US needs Putin's help? How is it Putin is providing any significant help

 

[russ_watters]

My feeling on the civil war in Syria are pretty much the same as this article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...yria-from-pre-civil-war-to-post-assad/281989/

If the opponents of the regime are fighting for some form of democracy, they have yet to make their voices heard.

They mean aside from how it all got started, right?:

The civil uprising prior to the Syrian Civil War was an early stage of protests – with subsequent violent reaction by the Syrian state – lasting from March to 28 July 2011. The uprising, initially demanding democratic reforms, evolved from initially minor protests, beginning as early as January 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_uprising_phase_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

The saddest part of all of this is that if the more moderate elements were given more early support, there may have been a chance for a better outcome.

 

[russ_watters]

I'd read someplace, probably Wikipedia, that in his early years Assad introduced 'progressive reforms' , but factions sprang back to life and violence restarted.

None of that appears accurate. You really need to do a lot less shooting from the hip here.

 

[mheslep]

My feeling on the civil war in Syria are pretty much the same as this article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...yria-from-pre-civil-war-to-post-assad/281989/

The author of that article, Polk, is 86 yrs old. He states the US has a "long history" of "dirty tricks" in Syria, states the US has used chemical weapons itself and so it should not be concerned about others using them. The former history professor manages some ten thousand words of Syrian history for The Atlantic but he does not bother to clarify or support those assertions (nor do his links). He does manage to mention Bush three times. Obama though, he's invisible in Polks essay.

 

[jim hardy]

I think

Left what alone in Syria?

not tried to overthrow the regime, of course.
Did you read that Seymour Hersch article 'spook linked?

The longtime consultant to the Joint Special Operations Command could not hide his contempt when I asked him for his view of the US’s Syria policy. ‘The solution in Syria is right before our nose,’ he said. ‘Our primary threat is Isis and all of us – the United States, Russia and China – need to work together. Bashar will remain in office and, after the country is stabilised there will be an election. There is no other option.’

 

[jim hardy]

http://www.bbc.com/news/10338256
In his inaugural address, Mr Assad promised wide-ranging reforms, including modernising the economy, fighting corruption and launching "our own democratic experience".

It was not long before the authorities released hundreds of political prisoners and allowed the first independent newspapers for more than three decades to begin publishing. A group of intellectuals pressing for democratic reforms were even permitted to hold public political meetings and publish statements.

The "Damascus Spring", as it became known, was short-lived.

By early 2001, the intellectuals' meetings began to be closed down or refused licences and several leading opposition figures were arrested. Limits on the freedom of the press were also soon put back in place.

For the rest of the decade, emergency rule remained in effect. The many security agencies continued to detain people without arrest warrants and held them incommunicado for lengthy periods, while Islamists and Kurdish activists were frequently sentenced to long prison terms. Any economic liberalisation benefitted the elite and its allies, rather than creating opportunities for all.

Many analysts believe that reform under Mr Assad has been inhibited by the "old guard", members of the leadership loyal to his late father.

His family is also said to have played a role in encouraging him to suppress dissent, including his brother Maher, the head of the Republican Guard, and his first cousin, Rami Makhlouf, arguably the most powerful economic figure in Syria.

In 2007, Mr Assad won another referendum with 97% of the vote, extending his term for another seven years.

 

[russ_watters]

...

So, right: one small gesture and a honeymoon period that lasted a few months before the crackdowns started anew. No reforms happened and no violence caused the crackdown. So again: none of what I quoted you as saying in post #910 was accurate.

 

[jim hardy]

we each think the other is deluded

so be it

 

[russ_watters]

we each think the other is deluded

so be it

Wow. Can you see the difference between "months" and "years"? Can you name an actual reform implemented? Was there anything beyond a single act of releasing some prisoners that actually showed Assad was going to change anything for the better?

I go back to what I said about methods for deciding on opinions. Jim, you're not, that I can see, using critical thinking skills here. One thing for sure is that one of us is posting analysis and the other just one-liners and quotes with little comment.

For another example, in that article you quoted a few posts up, the last line was:

In 2007, Mr Assad won another referendum with 97% of the vote, extending his term for another seven years.

Do you believe that number is real in that it displays a real level of support for Assad in Syria?

Anyway, my impression is that you don't want the US to be involved and you feel so strongly about that that you are willing to suspend analysis in favor of assuming anything that if true would be a point for non-involvement (and vice versa). It's fine to not want the US to be involved, but you really should get there via a real critical analysis of the situation.

 

[nsaspook]

The author of that article, Polk, is 86 yrs old. He states the US has a "long history" of "dirty tricks" in Syria, states the US has used chemical weapons itself and so it should not be concerned about others using them. The former history professor manages some ten thousand words of Syrian history for The Atlantic but he does not bother to clarify or support those assertions (nor do his links). He does manage to mention Bush three times. Obama though, he's invisible in Polks essay.

I think the professors understanding of "long history" is right on target as it explains clearly how the internal fight for Syria should be framed. and most of the 'Dirty tricks' were justified. Like after the Marine bombing in 1983 by Hezbollah (protected by Syria in Lebanon). After 9/11 we decided that continued Syrian support of Hezbollah affiliated groups put them on the "Axis of Evil" side of the terror equation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

In 1982, the Islamic Republic of Iran established a base in the Syrian-controlled Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. That base is still operational today. From that base, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) "founded, financed, trained and equipped Hezbollah to operate as a proxy army" for Iran.[48] Some analysts believe the newly formed Islamic Republic of Iran was heavily involved in the bomb attacks and that a major factor leading it to orchestrate the attacks on the barracks was America's support for Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War and its extending of $2.5 billion in trade credit to Iraq while halting the shipments of arms to Iran.[49] A few weeks before the bombing, Iran warned that providing armaments to Iran's enemies would provoke retaliatory punishment.[Notes 1] On September 26, 1983, "the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted an Iranian diplomatic communications message from the Iranian intelligence agency, the Ministry of Information and Security (MOIS)," to its ambassador, Ali Akbar Mohtashemi, in Damascus. The message directed the ambassador to "take spectacular action against the American Marines."[50] The intercepted message, dated September 26, would not be passed to the Marines until October 26: three days after the bombing.[51]

 

[mheslep]

I think the professors understanding of "long history" is right on target as it explains clearly how the internal fight for Syria should be framed. and most of the 'Dirty tricks' were justified. Like after the Marine bombing in 1983 by Hezbollah (protected by Syria in Lebanon). After 9/11 we decided that continued Syrian support of Hezbollah affiliated groups put them on the "Axis of Evil" side of the terror equation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

What "long history"? Of what?

I think Professor Polk was a once fine historian who is now "long" in the tooth and has become a crank in the tradition of Chomsky: we know the US subverted the like of Iran in the 50's, so we all know the US is behind everything, everywhere that's wrong with world, and evidence is a waste of time.

There's no evidence presented to support the claims in Polk's article. Prior to ISIS and Obama era, there's no evidence given of any history of US intervention on the ground in Syria, much less "dirty tricks", whatever that means. Syria was not included in the original Axis of Evil in the Bush speech (Iran, N. Korea, Iraq). Syria was later sanctioned by the Bush administration along with a couple other countries (e.g. Libya) for pursuit of chemical weapons, a correct assessment as we now know.

 

[jim hardy]

Sorry Russ for snapping at you. I shouldn't have done that.

 

[mheslep]

I think

not tried to overthrow the regime, of course.
Did you read that Seymour Hersch article 'spook linked?

Seymour Hersh is the guy that won the Pulitzer for reporting on the My Lai massacre, 47 years ago. I think I saw him chanting on the corner with a "The US did it, repent, the end is near sign", after the New Yorker told him no thanks on his "alternative" history of the killing of bin Laden.

Do you have an example, no matter how trivial, of when, where, or how the US actually did anything, did more than talk about ousting Assad?

 

[nsaspook]

There's no evidence presented to support the claims in Polk's article. Prior to ISIS and Obama era, there's no evidence given of any history of US intervention on the ground in Syria, much less "dirty tricks", whatever that means. Syria was not included in the original Axis of Evil in the Bush speech (Iran, N. Korea, Iraq). Syria was later sanctioned by the Bush administration along with a couple other countries (e.g. Libya) for pursuit of chemical weapons, a correct assessment as we now know.

There could be no overt military operations in Syria while the USSR existed (unless we wanted an attack on Turkey) and even today Russia preempts direct military actions to topple the Syria government. The US has a long history of covert anti-communist operations in Syria starting in the 1940's, 50's, 60's with Operation Straggle, Operation Wappen.

Some public recent history:
As a extraordinary rendition location before political relations went south after initial 9/11 help with anti-terrorism (Al Qaeda)
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1546119,00.html

In December of 2001, U.S. agents arranged to have a German citizen flown to a Syrian jail called the Palestine Branch, renowned for its use of torture, and later offered to pass written questions to Syrian interrogators to pose to the prisoner, according to a secret German intelligence report shown to TIME on Wednesday.

then later when Syria failed to cooperate with the US.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/11/cia-rendition-raids-al-qaida

The raid by helicopter-borne special forces into Syria last month was highly visible, but apparently there have been others that neither Washington nor the Syrian government has admitted to. The US has repeatedly said that Syria is the main staging posts for jihadists from elsewhere in the Middle East before they move into Iraq. The Syrian government, in its defence, has pointed to the difficulty of manning its long border with Iraq.

 

[mheslep]

...The US has a long history of covert anti-communist operations in Syria starting in the 1940's, 50's, 60's with Operation Straggle, Operation Wappen.

Thanks. I imagine this is what Polk had in mind. Are you aware of any action taken by the US to remove Assad since that era?

 

[nsaspook]

Thanks. I imagine this is what Polk had in mind. Are you aware of any action taken by the US to remove Assad since that era?

Our relationship with Syria has varied from open hostility when they joined with Iran after they became an Islamist state during the Iranian Revolution and were placed on the list of state sponsored terrorism nations with Iran during the 80's to tepid relations after the Gulf crisis in the early 90's when they joined the Arab coalition to remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait after the USSR had effectively been removed as a buffer from direct action by the West in Syria. They then flipped to opposition to US attacks on Iraq in 2003. Syria was not seen as a training base for terrorist as Assad feared they would eventually come after him but they did provide free passage for groups “passive support” to attack Israel and US forces in Iraq during that time.

Our plans to topple the current Syrian government due to the civil war is public policy but at the beginning of the war we were still trying to flip Assad.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/syrian-president-assad-regarded-reformer-clinton-says

 

[nsaspook]

Christmas in Damascus, Syria - 2015


http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...christmas-for-syrian-refugees-in-lebanon.html

 

[Dotini]

Christmas in Damascus, Syria - 2015


http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...christmas-for-syrian-refugees-in-lebanon.html

From the article:
"Before the peaceful Syrian uprising of 2011 turned into civil war, Christians representing a variety of denominations formed about 10 per cent of the country’s population of 24 million."

 

[fargoth]

Jaysh Al-Islam's leader, Jahran Alloush, has been killed by the Syrian air force.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ush-leader-syria-rebel-group-killed-airstrike
Another lunatic down, good riddance.

 

[mheslep]

Jaysh Al-Islam's leader, Jahran Alloush, has been killed by the Syrian air force.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ush-leader-syria-rebel-group-killed-airstrike
Another lunatic down, good riddance.

Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.

 

[fargoth]

Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.

Al-Qaeda opposes ISIS as well, doesn't make them part of "the good guys".
Just read the things he said (apart from interviews he gave to western media, in which he backtracks on everything he says to his people).

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a dangerous strategy.
Assad is also fighting ISIS... If I had to chose, he's better than the Salafis (not that I consider him as one of the "good guys" - these are really hard to come by in Syria, I assume most of them migrated away).

 

[HossamCFD]

Why do you describe Alloush as a lunatic, as opposed the leader of the Syrian government that killed him, Assad? The article you reference indicates Jaysh opposes ISIS.

I was doing some reading into the ideology of both Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham after I heard the news that Alloush was killed in an air strike. They do appear to be Salafist Jihadist, with marginal differences in ideology from ISIS or al-Qaeda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam#Ideology

Here are some relevant points from the wikipedia article

Alloush said that Alawites are "more infidel than Jews and Christians." (أكفر من اليهود والنصارى), addressing the Alawites as "Nusayri" (النصيرية).[49] which was originally from a fatwa about Alawites issued by Ibn Taymiyyah.[50]

Alloush claimed that "Our nation has a great thirst for an Islamic state" and attacked democracy after an interviewer asked Alloush "Can you accept a civil, democratic, and pluralistic state".[51][52][53][54][55][56][57]

Jaysh al-Islam ex-leader Zahran Alloush gave a speech on the merits of Hajj in 2013 and praised Usama bin Laden, addressing him by the honorific "Sheikh" and the honorific "rahimahu Allah" for making Hajj around 91 or 92 when Alloush was at the Islamic University of Medina.[40] Alloush addressed the Al-Qaeda organization Jabhat al-Nusra as "our brothers", saying that "The summary of this issue is that we in Jaish Al-Islam praise our brothers of the Nusrah Front and we don't consider them Khawarij as is propagated against us, We fight alongside them and they fight alongside us".[41]

Their criticism of ISIS seems to be mainly because ISIS is killing muslims not just "infidels".

The Islamic Front criticized ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant), saying: "They killed the people of Islam and leave the idol worshippers" (يقتلون أهل الإسلام ويدعون أهل الأوثان) and "They use the verses talking about the disbelievers and implement it on the Muslims" (ينزلون أيات نزلت في الكفار على المسلمين).[63]

So yes he does seem like a lunatic with in fact an identical ideology as al-Qaeda and his opposition to ISIS seems only a matter of competition.

 

[Dotini]

Did you read that Seymour Hersch article 'spook linked?

More reporting - this time favorable - on the Hersh story.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micha...yria_b_8879792.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

[jim hardy]

By Huffington Post, no less ? That's Remarkable.

That Hersch is no longer young enough to know everything doesn't mean he's wrong .

I wish i'd seen the Democracy Now interview.
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/12/22/seymour_hershs_latest_bombshell_us_military
i'll watch it later tonight

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Thanks Dotini for that link.

old jim

 

[jim hardy]

There's disagreement within US government circles. It doesn't get much coverage in our daily news.

https://www.rt.com/usa/312050-dia-flynn-islamic-state/

Al Jazeera notes that Lieutenant General Michael Flynn became “the highest ranking intelligence official to go on record,” saying the US and other states, notably Turkey and the Gulf Arab states, were sponsoring Al-Qaeda-led rebels in Syria with political support and weapons in an attempt to overthrow President Bashar Assad.

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-t-flynn-fired-from-dia-2014-4

Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, is being pushed out after a series of clashes over his leadership style, report Greg Miller and Adam Goldman at The Washington Post citing current and former U.S. officials.

He got crosswise with state dept.

MR KIRBY: Yeah, let me – can I come back to you? Because – go ahead. You’ve had your hand up for a while, go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you. Yeah. The former director of Defense Intelligence Agency Michael Flynn said it was, quote/unquote, the “willful decision” of the Administration to support and to coordinate arms transfers to the insurgents in Syria knowing, based on an intelligence report from 2012, that the major driving forces behind the insurgents in Syria were Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood, and al-Qaida in Iraq, or what we know – what we now call ISIL. So that intelligence report from 2012 was released under FOIA and it also says, quote, “There is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime,” end of quote.

Do you admit – would you admit, like Michael Flynn did, that in 2012 the U.S. supported the rise of the forces that we now call ISIL in order to defeat Assad?

MR KIRBY: I’m not going to speak to intelligence reports. I’m certainly not going to talk to an intelligence report that I haven’t seen. Let me just remind everybody what our positions are. We have been supporting a moderate Syrian opposition,

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ef-discusses-development-of-is-a-1065131.html

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How should the West fight this enemy?
...
.....
Flynn: We have to work constructively with Russia. Whether we like it or not, Russia made a decision to be there (in Syria) and to act militarily. They are there, and this has dramatically changed the dynamic. So you can't say Russia is bad, they have to go home. It's not going to happen. Get real...

All i know is what i read.. and much of that is inconsistent at best.

 

[fargoth]

Good News: Islamic State suffers double blow as Ramadi falls, leaders killed

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/12/29/putins-syria-campaign-paying-off?videoId=366831543

Despite President Obama’s early warning that Russian President Vladimir Putin would regret choosing to intervene in Syria, analysts and US officials agree that so far, Putin has achieved his objectives at little cost.

 

[mheslep]

Good News: Islamic State suffers double blow as Ramadi falls, leaders killed

An operation executed by the Iraqi Army, especially good news. Not the Kurds, not Sunni rebels. Kind of difficult to find time to bomb Paris when you're retreating on the run.

 

[Astronuc]

Daesh sets their sights on Saudi Arabia - Islamic State threatens to destroy Saudi prisons after executions
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-threatens-destroy-saudi-prisons-executions-081911929.htmland

Fear and Loathing (or Unease) in Saudi Arabia

Saudi royals are scared about everything from the rise of Iran to the drop in oil prices. And Washington telling them to calm down only makes them angrier.

http://news.yahoo.com/fear-loathing-saudi-arabia-234229908.html

 

[HossamCFD]

I am hesitant to share something from the Telegraph, but this one is important IMO:

If the Royal Air Force can't drop food to Madaya, we shouldn't bother having an air force at all
(Warning: contains pictures of starving children)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12091006/If-the-RAF-cant-drop-food-to-Madaya-in-Syria-we-shouldnt-bother-having-an-air-force-at-all.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

 

[Astronuc]

Daesh's double standards sow growing disillusion
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-states-double-standards-sow-070553933.html

"It's a criminal gang pretending to be a state," Saad said, speaking in Turkey, where he fled in October. "All this talk about applying Shariah and Islamic values is just propaganda, Daesh is about torture and killing," he said, using the Arabic acronym for IS.
. . . .
the group has come to resemble the dictatorial rule of Syrian President Bashar Assad that many Syrians had sought to shed, with a reliance on informers who have silenced a fearful populace. Rather than equality, society has seen the rise of a new elite class — the jihadi fighters — who enjoy special perks and favor in the courts, looking down on "the commoners" and even ignoring the rulings of their own clerics.

Despite the atrocities that made it notorious, the Islamic State group had raised hopes among some fellow Sunnis when it overran their territories across parts of Syria and Iraq and declared a "caliphate" in the summer of 2014. It presented itself as a contrast to Assad's rule, bringing justice through its extreme interpretation of Shariah and providing services to residents, including loans to farmers, water and electricity, and alms to the poor. Its propaganda machine promoting the dream of an Islamic caliphate helped attract jihadis from around the world.

Daesh is brutalizing the public.

Escaping from Daesh
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365527957/ (nasty stuff)

 

[S.G. Janssens]

Former Dutch soldier may face charges for killing IS jihadis:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/83438-2/

Quote from the article:

‘Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.

I sleep a lot better knowing that the Dutch authorities are watching over IS fighters' precious lives.

 

[Astronuc]

The cancer that is Daesh has spread it's poison to Afghanistan. As bad as the Taliban were, Daesh is worse.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/isis-in-afghanistan/

Daesh members are taking over schools and teaching the children to wage war against those outside of Daesh. Ordinary Afghans are at risk.

ISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/isis-is-in-afghanistan-but-who-are-they-really/

experts say that the entities that now call themselves ISIS in Afghanistan are not fighters from Iraq or Syria. Rather, they’re primarily disaffected Taliban members and insurgents from other groups who seized an opportunity to “rebrand” themselves as ISIS.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

The White House has embraced the covert financing from Saudi Arabia — and from Qatar, Jordan and Turkey — at a time when Mr. Obama has pushed gulf nations to take a greater security role in the region.

Spokesmen for both the C.I.A. and the Saudi Embassy in Washington declined to comment.

When Mr. Obama signed off on arming the rebels in the spring of 2013, it was partly to try to gain control of the apparent free-for-all in the region. The Qataris and the Saudis had been funneling weapons into Syria for more than a year. The Qataris had even smuggled in shipments of Chinese-made FN-6 shoulder-fired missiles over the border from Turkey.

The Saudi efforts were led by the flamboyant Prince Bandar bin Sultan, at the time the intelligence chief, who directed Saudi spies to buy thousands of AK-47s and millions of rounds of ammunition in Eastern Europe for the Syrian rebels. The C.I.A. helped arrange some of the arms purchases for the Saudis, including a large deal in Croatia in 2012.
...
The C.I.A. training program is separate from another program to arm Syrian rebels, one the Pentagon ran that has since ended. That program was designed to train rebels to combat Islamic State fighters in Syria, unlike the C.I.A.’s program, which focuses on rebel groups fighting the Syrian military.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

One has to wonder how much Saudi money and weaponry has found its way to Daesh.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

 

[Astronuc]

How Costly It Can Be For Muslims To Speak Out Against Daesh or al-Qaeda
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/02/03/3745720/syria-iraq-yemen-isis-kills-muslim/

“The Islamic State has executed Sunni clerics in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen, as part of an effort to kill any religious figures who pose a threat to the group’s narrative or ideological control,” noted an intel brief from the Soufan Group, . . .

Meanwhile - Fallujah is surrounded by Iraqi forces while Daesh members run wild in the city
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...65e568-c3a0-11e5-b933-31c93021392a_story.htmlAnd what the Syrian civil war has done to Homs
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dramatic-drone-footage-shows-devastation-of-homs-syria/
Homs is 'bombed out' like many European cities were in World War II.

 

[jack476]

Former Dutch soldier may face charges for killing IS jihadis:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/83438-2/

Quote from the article:

‘Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.

I sleep a lot better knowing that the Dutch authorities are watching over IS fighters' precious lives.

Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.

More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:

‘According to Amnesty International, the YPG may have been involved in driving civilians from their homes in the north of Syria last year and then destroying them,’ the statement said.

 

[S.G. Janssens]

Well...yeah, that's a war crime. If you're not an active-duty soldier you're not allowed to just appoint yourself as one and go out and kill. YPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Protection_Units) is not a formal part of the Dutch military.

Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.

More to the point though, he's also being investigated for acts of brutality against civilians:

I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.

 

[jack476]

Of course. As I wrote, I'm delighted the Dutch justice authorities have their priorities set straight.

So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.

I didn't read anywhere that he is personally under investigation for, what seem to me from your Amnesty quote, still rather tentative accusations.

The Amnesty quote is actually from your article. The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.