News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

[Astronuc]

Iran's president claims his military best defense against IS
http://news.yahoo.com/irans-president-claims-military-best-defense-against-073646722.html

US acts to open dialogue with Iran about Syria, Yemen crises
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-wants-talk-iran-syria-065830538.html#

Russia Expands Military Presence in Syria, Satellite Photos Show
https://news.yahoo.com/video/russia-expands-military-presence-syria-015204335.html

Potential collaboration or conflict.

 

[Astronuc]

In contrast - Iraq's stalemate in Ramadi raises doubts about US strategy
http://news.yahoo.com/iraqs-stalemate-ramadi-raises-doubts-us-strategy-122129040.html

 

[mheslep]

What's to doubt? The strategy has been to do nothing of significance in northern Iraq and thus run out the clock on the Obama administration. So far so good.

 

[Astronuc]

After ruinous war, Syria regions may go separate ways
http://news.yahoo.com/ruinous-war-syria-regions-may-separate-ways-061616639.html

In contrast - Syria state media praise Putin's UN speech
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-state-media-praise-putin-speech-un-general-113151540.html

Putin: Russia to help Assad's offensive with airstrikes
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-lawmakers-consider-giving-ok-troops-abroad-073718314.html

The mess just gets messier.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...of-Russian-troops-in-Syria-approved-live.html

03.30 Russia warned over Syria air strikes, which reportedly target US-backed rebels
Russian air strikes risk driving Syria’s “entire opposition” into the arms of Isil, Britain warned on Wednesday, as President Vladimir Putin's jets bombed targets in three different provinces, report Harriet Alexander in New York and Roland Oliphant in Moscow.

US officials have now said that at least one strike directly targeted rebels that were trained and supported by the US, according to the Wall St Journal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11903063/Russias-defence-ministry-releases-footage-showing-air-strikes-on-Syria.html. The Russian defence ministry said that 20 sorties were flown against eight targets, described as “military vehicles” along with “arms, ammunition and fuel depots” belonging to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

 

[Astronuc]

Messier and messier.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-lawmakers-consider-giving-ok-troops-abroad-073718314.html

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter also said the Russians appeared to have targeted areas that did not include IS militants and complained Moscow did not use formal channels to give advance notice of its airstrikes to Washington, which is conducting its own airstrikes in Syria against the Islamic State group.
. . . .
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dismissed charges that Russian airstrikes in Syria targeted positions of the Syrian opposition. Speaking to journalists on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly, he said that the Russian Air Forces are cooperating with the Syrian pro-government military to target "exclusively" Islamic State targets.

Russia says Islamic State group not the only target in Syria
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-envoy-syria-needs-free-elections-defeat-073401974.html

 

[Bystander]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rebel-commander-weighs-in-on-why-u-s-training-program-failed/

 

[Borg]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...of-Russian-troops-in-Syria-approved-live.html

Messier and messier.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-lawmakers-consider-giving-ok-troops-abroad-073718314.html

When Russia wanted to help protect the rebels in Ukraine from air strikes they supplied them with anti-aircraft weapons. Perhaps Obama should take a page from Putin's playbook. I'm sure that it's not going to happen but, I would love to see the look on Putin's face if it did.

 

[Monsterboy]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rebel-commander-weighs-in-on-why-u-s-training-program-failed/

As the U.S. has tried to help Syrian rebels, its problem has always been not knowing who to trust. America's $500 million program to train and equip carefully vetted Syrian fighters was supposed to solve that problem. Instead, some of the fighters and their weapons have ended up in the hands of terrorists.

If i recall correctly a similar thing happened in Afghanistan , afghan soldiers trained by the US went and joined the Taliban because they offered better pay! looks like the US doesn't know how to recruit the right fighters , that's why so few of them are trained, I don't think there is any way to know for certain whether the rebel fighters you are training are going to stick to your side ,especially if they get pissed off as explained in the article. A little over a hundred against over 35000 IS fighters? Where is this going ?

 

[nsaspook]

If i recall correctly a similar thing happened in Afghanistan , afghan soldiers trained by the US went and joined the Taliban because they offered better pay! looks like the US doesn't know how to recruit the right fighters , that's why so few of them are trained, I don't think there is any way to know for certain whether the rebel fighters you are training are going to stick to your side ,especially if they get pissed off as explained in the article. A little over a hundred against over 35000 IS fighters? Where is this going ?

We need to improve the recruiting package. 40 acres and a mule sounds pretty good.

 

[mheslep]

If i recall correctly a similar thing happened in Afghanistan , afghan soldiers trained by the US went and joined the Taliban because they offered better pay! looks like the US doesn't know how to recruit the right fighters , ...?

The Afghan army in present form has some 200,000 troops, not a couple hundred.

 

[Monsterboy]

The Afghan army in present form has some 200,000 troops, not a couple hundred.

By the words "looks like the US doesn't know how to recruit the right fighters " I meant in Syria , few years ago I saw an episode of a National Geographic show on TV called "Don't tell my mother" where a french journalist travels to the most dangerous parts of the world to get a first hand experience and tells the producers to not tell his mother that he had been there.When he was in Afghanistan he talked to many soldiers some of whom joined the Taliban a few days later , he also talked to some soldiers who had fought for the Taliban but were on the government's side now ! , they claimed that the Taliban paid them more but they came back because the Taliban were too radical and it scared them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Tell_My_Mother

 

[mheslep]

The point then is that the US does know how recruit and build a sizable foreign military force, but for some reason the current US leadership has chosen not to do so in the Syrian conflict.

 

[lisab]

The point then is that the US does know how recruit and build a sizable foreign military force, but for some reason the current US leadership has chosen not to do so in the Syrian conflict.

No evidence of that claim here:

https://www.sigar.mil/

 

[mheslep]

I'm missing how SIGAR is relevant to my statement. The Afghan defense force, as created in 2002, has a couple hundred thousand troops (also here). If you mean a lot of money is wasted on missteps, or that creating the force at all may be unwise, or that it may be misused, yes of course, but that's true of any government operation including the operation of the US domestic military.

 

[Astronuc]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-jets-mount-air-strikes-syria-095758940.html#

Russia bombed Syria for a third day in a row on Friday, mainly hitting areas held by rival insurgent groups rather than the Islamic State fighters it said it was targeting and drawing an increasingly angry response from the West.

The U.S.-led coalition that is waging its own air war against Islamic State called on the Russians to halt strikes on targets other than Islamic State.

 

[Astronuc]

Assad: Russian failure in Syria would 'destroy' Mideast
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-bombs-10-targets-ramps-syria-campaign-101840801.html

Damascus (AFP) - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad warned the success of Russia's military intervention in his war-torn country was vital for the entire Middle East, as Moscow ramped up its bombing campaign Sunday.

Seems to be at odds with US interests.Meanwhile, Daesh is free to run amok - still - Daesh militants blow up ancient Arch of Triumph in Palmyra
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-militants-blow-ancient-arch-triumph-palmyra-225035318.html

DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Islamic State militants have blown up the Arch of Triumph, a major monument in the 2,000-year-old Roman city of Palmyra, Syria's antiquities chief said on Sunday, after they destroyed two ancient temples at the central Syrian site in recent months.

Maamoun Abdulkarim told Reuters that sources in Palmyra had confirmed that the Arch of Triumph, a jewel in the exquisite collection of ruins in the oasis city, had been blown up.

 

[lisab]

I'm missing how SIGAR is relevant to my statement. The Afghan defense force, as created in 2002, has a couple hundred thousand troops (also here). If you mean a lot of money is wasted on missteps, or that creating the force at all may be unwise, or that it may be misused, yes of course, but that's true of any government operation including the operation of the US domestic military.

Both your links show that troops exist - but we already knew that. The question is, how good are they? Your first link seems to suggest unity is a problem with Afghan troops. Why else would the Defense Minister have to remind recent graduates that they are "armed forces were duty-bound to protect the territorial integrity of their motherland" and "the country was in need of rock-solid unity at the present critical juncture"? And your second link uses 5-year-old data.

There is some point where the amount of waste is so large and the ROI is so small, that it becomes impossible to believe "the US does know how recruit and build a sizable foreign military force". IMO, we passed that point some time ago in Afghanistan.

 

[fargoth]

Iran troops to join Syria war, Russia bombs group trained by CIA

Russian warplanes, in a second day of strikes, bombed a camp run by rebels trained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, the group's commander said
...
Hassan Haj Ali, head of the Liwa Suqour al-Jabal rebel group that is part of the Free Syrian Army, told Reuters one of the targets was his group's base in Idlib province, struck by about 20 missiles in two separate raids. His fighters had been trained by the CIA in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, part of a program Washington says is aimed at supporting groups that oppose both Islamic State and Assad.
​

I think that in this instance, Russia might actually do more good than the U.S., since this group is probably almost as bad as ISIS:

A publication of the Counter Terrorism Centre in August 2013 described Suqour al-Sham as belonging to the most stridently Islamist wing of the Free Syrian Armyand the Syrian Islamic Liberation Front.[18] After ending relations with those two organisations it joined the Islamic Front in November 2013, a charter released by the new group described their shared beliefs as rejecting representative democracy and secularism, instead seeking to establish an Islamic State ruled by a Majlis-ash-Shura and implementing Sharia law.[20]
​

And can someone please explain this to me?:

"Creating and arming a Syrian rebel force, Obama has insisted, is a fantasy."​

If the president thinks it's a bad move, and he's the one calling the shots on foreign affairs - why does the U.S. create and arm Syrian rebel forces?

 

[Nico Crawford]

It's stu

Iran troops to join Syria war, Russia bombs group trained by CIA

Russian warplanes, in a second day of strikes, bombed a camp run by rebels trained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, the group's commander said
...
Hassan Haj Ali, head of the Liwa Suqour al-Jabal rebel group that is part of the Free Syrian Army, told Reuters one of the targets was his group's base in Idlib province, struck by about 20 missiles in two separate raids. His fighters had been trained by the CIA in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, part of a program Washington says is aimed at supporting groups that oppose both Islamic State and Assad.
​

I think that in this instance, Russia might actually do more good than the U.S., since this group is probably almost as bad as ISIS:

A publication of the Counter Terrorism Centre in August 2013 described Suqour al-Sham as belonging to the most stridently Islamist wing of the Free Syrian Armyand the Syrian Islamic Liberation Front.[18] After ending relations with those two organisations it joined the Islamic Front in November 2013, a charter released by the new group described their shared beliefs as rejecting representative democracy and secularism, instead seeking to establish an Islamic State ruled by a Majlis-ash-Shura and implementing Sharia law.[20]
​

And can someone please explain this to me?:

"Creating and arming a Syrian rebel force, Obama has insisted, is a fantasy."​

If the president thinks it's a bad move, and he's the one calling the shots on foreign affairs - why does the U.S. create and arm Syrian rebel forces?

It's stupid because once they win the will be the next threat to America and the world. I don't know why America hasn't learned that history repeats itself. We don't need to arm them we need to kill the extremist and educate the rest of those people. "The pen is mightier than the sword" a wise person once said.

 

[fargoth]

It's stu

It's stupid because once they win the will be the next threat to America and the world. I don't know why America hasn't learned that history repeats itself. We don't need to arm them we need to kill the extremist and educate the rest of those people. "The pen is mightier than the sword" a wise person once said.

I think you might have not read my last sentence... How come the president is said to think it's stupid, while it's still being put into action? (started and maintained during his presidency, in the case of Syria)

Anyway, seems like Russia is fixing US's mistakes at the cost of probably getting itself into deep dang and falling out of favour with the gulf states.

 

[mheslep]

...

It's stupid because once they win the will be the next threat to America and the world. I don't know why America hasn't learned that history repeats itself. We don't need to arm them we need to kill the extremist and educate the rest of those people. "The pen is mightier than the sword" a wise person once said.

And the means to kill the extremists and educate the remainder is? With training of Syrian rebels off the table as "stupid", you then favor the introduction of US ground troops into Syria followed by a prolonged nation building exercise to accommodate education?

 

[mheslep]

...

Anyway, seems like Russia is fixing US's mistakes at the cost of probably getting itself into deep **** and falling out of favour with the gulf states.

What is Putin doing about ISIS? That is, what do you observe are the US mistakes in Syria and what in particular is Putin doing about them?

 

[nsaspook]

What is Putin doing about ISIS?

Not much right now, ISIS is maybe #3 on the Russia in Syria to-do list.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/russia-syria-isis/

http://tass.ru/en/world/826387

"Russian air strikes are targeted against the groups Islamic State, Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham the United Nations Security Council considers are terrorist," he noted.

 

[fargoth]

And the means to kill the extremists and educate the remainder is? With training of Syrian rebels off the table as "stupid", you then favor the introduction of US ground troops into Syria followed by a prolonged nation building exercise to accommodate education?

So, you think supporting extremists is the means to kill the extremists and educate the remainder?
How about the third alternative, advocated by Obama in the following famous sentence "Don't do stupid dang"?
Obama seems to systematically fail to implement this approach.

What is Putin doing about ISIS? That is, what do you observe are the US mistakes in Syria and what in particular is Putin doing about them?

Russia is targeting muslim extremists, some of which are ISIS, others were trained and equipped by the US.
ISIS might be the worst of the bunch, but Jabhat Al Nusra, and Suqour al-Sham (which the US trained and equipped) should also be weakened or they will take over the country if ISIS and Assad fall.

US's actions would end up replacing a secular tyrant with a religious one, who would probably be even more anti-western than Assad.
Because of the west's and gulf states' intervention in Syria, the rebels refused to negotiate with Assad - they were sure they'll win by the sword.
Russia's actions balance this intervention, and might make the rebels realize diplomacy is a better alternative than continued fighting.

There is no sense in supporting gangs like Suqour al-Sham just because they want to overthrow Assad and fight ISIS over the control of Syria, unless your goal is to simply overthrow Assad.

US actions might be more about balancing the Shiite-Sunni geopolitics than anything else.
Since the overthrow of Saddam had disturbed the balance in favour of the Shiites - now they want Syria to turn over to the Sunni side, depriving Iran of an ally and severing Hezbollah's land connection with Iran through Syria.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ead-huge-Russian-backed-ground-offensive.html

A pamphlet aimed at civilians, and designed to look like 'religious literature', read: 'Co-operate with the army and leave the zone of the special operations for the sake of your own life.'

It said they can travel through Syrian checkpoints safely with the leaflet, and the government will give them 'shelter, food and medical aid'.

Another one, meant for ISIS fighters, said: 'Don't make it even worse for yourselves.

'The Motherland [presumably Syria] is ready to hug you back again. Give up your arms as hundreds of other young guys like you have done.'

One of the pamphlets, obtained by the Kremlin-friendly Russian Komsomolskaya Pravda website, featured a cartoon of an al-Nusra front figurine being wound up by Israel and the United States.

The message accompanying the propaganda cartoon - designed to sow divisions between the extremist factions - read: 'Al-Nusra terrorists, they are American and Israeli rebels.'

The leaflets, were dropped out of ageing Russian-made Mi-8 helicopters guided by a 'tablet with Google Maps'.

 

[mheslep]

Russia is targeting muslim extremists, some of which are ISIS, others were trained and equipped by the ...

Sources? You will find that Putin is primarily attacking anti-Assad forces, without regard to religious view. As of a couple days ago, he had made no attacks on ISIS whatsoever, though he did have fighters in Turkish airspace which locked their firing radar on Turkish forces.

 

[mheslep]

How about the third alternative, advocated by Obama in the following famous sentence "Don't do stupid ****"?.

Infamous, not famous, as that answer was not an alternative at all from a President/CNC. Instead it was sophomoric and impudent in the face of several hundred thousand dead in Syria, the use of chemical weapons by Assad, invasion of neighbors by Putin, and millions migrating to Europe. That is, the Obama statement itself was stupid stuff.

 

[fargoth]

Sources? You will find that Putin is primarily attacking anti-Assad forces, without regard to religious view. As of a couple days ago, he had made no attacks on ISIS whatsoever, though he did have fighters in Turkish airspace which locked their firing radar on Turkish forces.

About Russia hitting US backed extremists:

Iran troops to join Syria war, Russia bombs group trained by CIA

Russian warplanes, in a second day of strikes, bombed a camp run by rebels trained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, the group's commander said
...
Hassan Haj Ali, head of the Liwa Suqour al-Jabal rebel group that is part of the Free Syrian Army, told Reuters one of the targets was his group's base in Idlib province, struck by about 20 missiles in two separate raids. His fighters had been trained by the CIA in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, part of a program Washington says is aimed at supporting groups that oppose both Islamic State and Assad.
​

I think that in this instance, Russia might actually do more good than the U.S., since this group is probably almost as bad as ISIS:

A publication of the Counter Terrorism Centre in August 2013 described Suqour al-Sham as belonging to the most stridently Islamist wing of the Free Syrian Armyand the Syrian Islamic Liberation Front.[18] After ending relations with those two organisations it joined the Islamic Front in November 2013, a charter released by the new group described their shared beliefs as rejecting representative democracy and secularism, instead seeking to establish an Islamic State ruled by a Majlis-ash-Shura and implementing Sharia law.[20]
​

And can someone please explain this to me?:

"Creating and arming a Syrian rebel force, Obama has insisted, is a fantasy."​

If the president thinks it's a bad move, and he's the one calling the shots on foreign affairs - why does the U.S. create and arm Syrian rebel forces?

About Russia hitting ISIS - you can find several instances, but a quick search in reuters got me today's action:

The Russian defense ministry said on Wednesday (October 7) four of its warships in the Caspian Sea launched 26 rockets at Islamic State in Syria which hit their targets earlier in the day

 

[nsaspook]

About Russia hitting US backed extremists:
About Russia hitting ISIS - you can find several instances, but a quick search in reuters got me today's action:

Looks like Russia is all in now.