Is a High-Cost Undergraduate Degree Worth the Debt for Aspiring Scientists?

[kaos86]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone went or transfer to a university and ended up "knee-deep" debt. I wanted to ask this because the university I'm trying to get into is very expensive, but I love everything else about the university. BTW, I'm an out of state student transferring to the University of Vermont.(total tuition for out of state: $45,188)

If its important, I'm trying to get a Ph.d. in physics.

 

[cristo]

BTW, I'm an out of state student transferring to the University of Vermont.(total tuition for out of state: $45,188)

Please tell me that fee isn't per year

 

[kaos86]

Please tell me that fee isn't per year

I'm afraid it is. Here's the total cost for the B.S or B.A.: 180,752.

I really fell in love with the university. I have a tough decision to make and I did research for other colleges. For some reason, this university trapped me into "that" spell.

 

[cristo]

Wow!

 

[kramer733]

Are you rich? Also stay at your hometown and just take physics there.

 

[kaos86]

Are you rich? Also stay at your hometown and just take physics there.

Lol! I wish I was rich. I do want to stay in Florida, but I hate it here. I want to move up north and be independent. I did so much research into this university and I was convinced to go there. However, the god-awful debt I will be in life will be sad. All I can say is that I better become one hell of a physicist to pay this debt.

 

[Zhabka]

In the past two years I have been going to university I have found that it costs me about $12,000 for 8 months of classes. This includes, tuition, books, rent, food, luxury.

I think that $45,000 a year/~$200,000 for a BSc is insane. Spending $200,000 is the kind of thing most people get a 30 year mortgage to buy a house with or something. Especially in a field like science where you don't exactly expect a 6 figure salary after getting a 4 year degree (or ever) a debt like this would take decades to pay off.

I would say that it's worth it to settle on a cheaper school. These days with forums like this one and universities like Stanford posting complete lecture series online for free, you don't need to worry your head off about whether or not you are getting the best education money can buy, most schools should do the trick.

***

Or how about this, for $45,000 a year you could get together with a friend or two and just hire the professor to be your personal tutor!

 

[kaos86]

I know that this tuition cost is ground breaking. I did some more research and I'm eligible for a pell grant, however; it won't be enough. I might have to get private student loans and federal student loans all together per year. I was arguing with myself on the cost, but the school fits my criteria. BTW, the classrooms are small(20 students is the maximum) and the professors will have time to help you. I hate being in a crowded room full of 150 students. The good news is that I have not made my complete decision. I'm still looking at other universities and see which university is cheaper up north(North as somewhere near NY,VT, etc...)

 

[kramer733]

Lol! I wish I was rich. I do want to stay in Florida, but I hate it here. I want to move up north and be independent. I did so much research into this university and I was convinced to go there. However, the god-awful debt I will be in life will be sad. All I can say is that I better become one hell of a physicist to pay this debt.

I'm sure doing the research and going to that university and actually experiencing the atmosphere are 2 different things. Dude you got to weigh in the costs. Alot of people have said that the place you've got your undergrad is not important at all. But if you truly wish to attend this university, do it. It's your life. I wouldn't though. But you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. Alot of it has to do with the fact that i'll be away from my family and friends. Starting new sounds amazing but costing an additional 130k is not worth it to me at all. That's going to take you atleast 2-3 years to repay assuming you got a job that offers you $50k+ per year right out of your graduation. THAT'S ALSO ASSUMING YOU PAY IT ALL OFF AGRESSIVELY AND NOT ANY OF THAT MONEY ON LUXURIES OR ESSENTIALS.

 

[Sakha]

Have you searched for financial-aid packages? Most students just pay a fraction of the tuition costs using financial-aid, grants, scholarships.

 

[kaos86]

Have you searched for financial-aid packages? Most students just pay a fraction of the tuition costs using financial-aid, grants, scholarships.

I believe they do have a financial-aid package. I have the list here:

# Pell grants
# Supplemental Education Opportunity Grant (SEOG)
# Federal SMART grant
# Vermont state grants(not eligible. Out of state student)
# Alternative state grants(not eligible. Out of state student)

Scholarships:

AmeriCorps Scholarship (Americorps Application Required)

* Any student (graduate, undergraduate, or medical) enrolled in a degree program at the University of Vermont who has completed AmeriCorps service in Vermont and has been awarded a Segal AmeriCorps Education Award is eligible to apply.
* AmeriCorps Scholarships provide a 50% match to the Segal AmeriCorps Education Award for one academic year of study.
* Four (4) scholarships are awarded each year; recipeints are notified in August.
* For information about how to apply.

Bernard Osher Foundation Reentry Scholarship (Osher Scholarship Application required)

* For students seeking their degree after a significant break in their studies.
* Awards are generally $2000 for the academic year.
* Apply online.

Robert Noyce Scholarship (Robert Noyce Scholarship Application required)

* The Robert Noyce Scholarship for Math and Science Teachers provides scholarships for undergraduate science majors to become teachers in high need school districts.
* Recipients must teach two years in a high need school district for each year that scholarship funds are received.
* Learn more and apply at the Noyce Scholarship website.

James M. Jeffords Center Scholarship Program

* Beginning in the 2009-10 academic year, Undergraduate Scholarships will be available to full-time UVM undergraduate students for research associated with the Jeffords Center’s Signature Themes.
* For more information, visit the James M. Jeffords Center website.

Leroy Ingalls 4-H Scholarship (Leroy Ingalls Scholarship Application Required)

* For current University of Vermont students with “outstanding merit in character and 4-H club record and scholastic attainment in college.” The 4-H experience may come from Vermont or any other state.
* The award is available every academic year and will be granted in the second semester, and the amount available will vary each year.
* For questions, please contact UVM Extension at (802) 656-0311.
* Apply on the Extension/4-H website.

Students may find additional scholarship resources available through their Dean's Office by selecting one or more of the links below:

* College of Agriculture & Life Sciences
* College of Arts & Sciences
* College of Education & Social Services
* College of Engineering & Mathematical Sciences
* College of Nursing & Health Sciences
* Rubenstein School of Environment & Natural Resources
* School of Business Administration
* Continuing Education

 

[TMFKAN64]

Move to Vermont, and live there long enough to establish residency. Working for a year would let you save some extra money as well. (I'm assuming you are a US citizen here.)

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to pay $200K for a Bachelor's degree from Harvard, and it's even more doubtful from the U. of Vermont.

 

[kaos86]

So, in the end, there will be a lot of debt to pay back even if I' am eligible for a pell grant and a scholarship. Maybe I should keep looking for more scholarships and find one for physics undergraduates.

 

[kaos86]

Move to Vermont, and live there long enough to establish residency. Working for a year would let you save some extra money as well. (I'm assuming you are a US citizen here.)

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to pay $200K for a Bachelor's degree from Harvard, and it's even more doubtful from the U. of Vermont.

I would move to Vermont, but I'm dirt poor. I share a car with my brother and I just lost my job last year. I'm thinking to move into Vermont, but as a transfer student with on-campus housing. I have to find a job if I decide to go to this university, too.

 

[eri]

It's simply not worth it. My undergrad school cost 45k a year, but with scholarships I only needed to take out about 10% of the total cost in loans - and that's still going to take me nearly 10 years to pay back. By the time you've finished paying off your loans, most people have paid nearly twice what they owed in the first place - and unless you go into industry, your first job with a PhD might pay 40k a year. All for a school with an unknown physics program.

 

[contramundum]

Just don't buy a house and don't have kids. Then you should be fine to pay off your $180,000 debt.

 

[kaos86]

It's simply not worth it. My undergrad school cost 45k a year, but with scholarships I only needed to take out about 10% of the total cost in loans - and that's still going to take me nearly 10 years to pay back. By the time you've finished paying off your loans, most people have paid nearly twice what they owed in the first place - and unless you go into industry, your first job with a PhD might pay 40k a year. All for a school with an unknown physics program.

They offer a B.A. and B.S. in physics. Also, a masters in physics.

Here's the research programs:

Research within the department is can be broadly defined in three categories

Biological Physics - this includes use of Atomic Force Microscopy to study DNA, lipid membranes, and viruses; studies of the application of Ultrasound to biological systems; protein crystallography to study the shapes of proteins and how function follows form; and interpretation of magnetic measurements on biomolecules to determine electronic structure. (Professors: Wu, Spartalian, Yang, Chu)

Astrophysics - the use of radio astronomy to study pulsars. (Professor: Rankin)

Condensed Matter Physics- including theoretical studies of the dynamics of quantum systems with application to electronic, magnetic, optical, structural, and thermal properties of nanomaterials (eg. fullerene-derived solids and nanotubes). (Professors: Clougherty, Kotov, Headrick, Furis)

I truly want the Astrophysics research if accepted.

 

[kaos86]

Just don't buy a house and don't have kids. Then you should be fine to pay off your $180,000 debt.

That, I will take into consideration. Besides, I might be too busy to knock-up a college girl and have a social life with other students.

 

[fluxions]

It might be a good exercise to calculate just how much your payments will be after you graduate.

Here's a loan payment calculator: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/loan-calculator.aspx"

I suggest you play around with it. Just try out, say, $100,000 debt, 15 year repayment period, 6% interest. It's about $850 a month.

Suppose you land a $40k per year (after taxes) job just out of undergrad. That's ~$3300 per month. So your loan payments would eat up ~25% of your take-home income. Just something to think about...

 

[kaos86]

It might be a good exercise to calculate just how much your payments will be after you graduate.

Here's a loan payment calculator: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/loan-calculator.aspx"

I suggest you play around with it. Just try out, say, $100,000 debt, 15 year repayment period, 6% interest. It's about $850 a month.

Suppose you land a $40k per year (after taxes) job just out of undergrad. That's ~$3300 per month. So your loan payments would eat up ~25% of your take-home income. Just something to think about...

I understand that I will end up with not a lot of money. In a situation like this, I know I'm taking a huge risk. However, I know for one thing is I want this as a career and I can guarantee that I won't get married. I don't even want to get married because its a pointless process with me(I gave up on dating and concentrated on my career).

Luckily, I have not made a final decision on this university. I still have some bookmarked.

 

[fluxions]

I don't even want to get married because its a pointless process with me(I gave up on dating and concentrated on my career).

What career?

 

[sweetpotato]

Paying that much may be worth it for MIT or Harvard, but for U of Vermont? Even if it's a decent school, it doesn't seem worth it. Might there be cheaper schools up North that you can look at?

 

[kaos86]

What career?

What career? What do you think? PHYSICS!

I love physics and the people that inspire me in this subject: Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, etc...

 

[kaos86]

Paying that much may be worth it for MIT or Harvard, but for U of Vermont? Even if it's a decent school, it doesn't seem worth it. Might there be cheaper schools up North that you can look at?

I'm still looking. The problem with universities today are the out of state tuition. Not to mention that I will have no car to move around. Thus, I have to depend on some from of transportation. U. of Vermont is built in the vicinity of a small city, Burlington. Buses, bikes, and walking sounds like my form of transportation. Also, the bus ride is free to any U. of Vermont student.

 

[fluxions]

What career? What do you think? PHYSICS!

I love physics and the people that inspire me in this subject: Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, etc...

Why do you need/want to go to undergraduate school to get a degree in physics if you already have a career in physics?

 

[kaos86]

Why do you need/want to go to undergraduate school to get a degree in physics if you already have a career in physics?

Well, I'm an amateur physicist. I don't get paid on what I do and "some" would say its a hobby not a career. However, its something more than a hobby to me. Thus, I believe its my career even though I don't get paid for it.

I want a Ph.D. in physics because I want to make a difference in the science community. I believe I have this "thing" where I care to help the human species. Sadly, I do need money to survive and that's how this world works. However, in the end, I just hope I can expand science and bring light to the mysteries of the universe we live in. Some of you would say "Get real" or "impossible." I believe anything is possible with science.

I hope this convince people in the community that I don't want to be some millionaire or some greedy jerk.

 

[Angry Citizen]

I think you're going to spend a lot of money for no really good reason. I have a very good friend in that area, and I wouldn't even dream of spending that much money for my engineering degree, even to hang out with her and enjoy the better weather. That is a lot of money. You'll hate yourself forever if you get up there and find it's not the place you thought it was.

 

[kaos86]

You'll hate yourself forever if you get up there and find it's not the place you thought it was.

Good thing I made this topic, too. I'm getting thoughts and help from this great community.
I'm still looking at more schools with cheaper tuition. One thing I can agree with you is "regret" and the saddening debt I will end up if I agree to this costly tuition.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Have you ever considered University of Texas or Texas A&M? The culture is very different, especially at Texas A&M, but it's far, far cheaper (figure high-twenties per year tuition for out-of-state). They're also great physics schools, and if you decide you want to stay at your institution for grad school, they can take you all the way to Ph.D.

 

[kaos86]

Have you ever considered University of Texas or Texas A&M? The culture is very different, especially at Texas A&M, but it's far, far cheaper (figure high-twenties per year tuition for out-of-state). They're also great physics schools, and if you decide you want to stay at your institution for grad school, they can take you all the way to Ph.D.

that's even more expensive:

U. of Texas-Non-resident on-campus $34,180 – 47,396

Here's the one for U. of Vermont:

Non-resident on-campus $30,744 - $45,188

 

[kramer733]

Ok Kaos86. Let's be realistic here and give up on university of vermont. When it's all said and done, you'll be SO PISSED OFF AT $180K DEBT. If people are pissed off at a $50k debt, you're anger will be more than 3x their anger. Dude why don't you just work your way up the research? It doesn't even matter where you go for your undergrad. As long as it's a decent school where they teach you physics, what's the problem?

You can do your own research. Just ask your professors to volunteer. I don't see the problem with that. No matter what, you'll have to move up in the academic world. Correct me if I'm wrong but you aren't going to be doing intensive research that matter anyway are you? Just do your masters and phd after your undergrad. Grad degrees are doors to research experience. I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THIS! You're already researching aren't you? You're an amateur physicist.

So what's the problem? You can research while you study. Reality is though, you're going to hate yourself for this and I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.

 

[Angry Citizen]

that's even more expensive:

U. of Texas-Non-resident on-campus $34,180 – 47,396

Here's the one for U. of Vermont:

Non-resident on-campus $30,744 - $45,188

Huh. I distinctly remember something very different. Sorry for the bad advice.

 

[diazona]

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to pay $200K for a Bachelor's degree from Harvard, and it's even more doubtful from the U. of Vermont.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Harvard is cheaper And I think they have a pretty generous financial aid system which pays out in grants instead of loans.

Here's what I'm wondering: at another college, you could get a physics education of comparable or possibly better quality at a lower cost. Perhaps $100,000, perhaps $10,000. So what exactly would you be getting from U. of Vermont that makes you think it's worth that extra $100K?

 

[kaos86]

Huh. I distinctly remember something very different. Sorry for the bad advice.

It's ok. At least your helping me

 

[contramundum]

You could always go to the University of Florida (which is a pretty good school if I recall) for your bachelors and then go to Vermont for your masters/phd.

 

[kaos86]

Here's what I'm wondering: at another college, you could get a physics education of comparable or possibly better quality at a lower cost. Perhaps $100,000, perhaps $10,000. So what exactly would you be getting from U. of Vermont that makes you think it's worth that extra $100K?

Well, I've been researching this university for a week. I saw in the catalog that they offer a B.S. and a M.S. in physics. Also, as an undergrad. in physics, you can get an opportunity in a research project with a faculty member.

 

[kaos86]

You could always go to the University of Florida (which is a pretty good school if I recall) for your bachelors and then go to Vermont for your masters/phd.

I would do that, but my mission is to get away from Florida. I'm trying to be independent and have my own life experiences. I have no job and I still live with my parents. Believe me when I say this, I've been looking for a job over a year now. I think it's time to "leave" the nest for a better life.

 

[Angry Citizen]

What state do you live in? Edit: Nevermind. I understand wanting to get out of Florida, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. University of Florida is a perfectly good school, and after spending loads less on in-state tuition, you can go anywhere you want for grad school and pay nothing or next to nothing.

 

[kaos86]

What state do you live in?

Florida. I hate it here, too.

 

[kaos86]

What state do you live in? Edit: Nevermind. I understand wanting to get out of Florida, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. University of Florida is a perfectly good school, and after spending loads less on in-state tuition, you can go anywhere you want for grad school and pay nothing or next to nothing.

Yeah, but I really want to get out of here. I'm so desperate to start my own life. I'm 23 years old and I will have my A.A. this fall semester. I did so much research into this school, but the sacrifice of being in debt is painful. I'm sure someone here in this community is having this experience.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Eh, I hate it in Texas. Like I said (I edited my post) you should probably bite the bullet and look forward to grad school.

 

[kaos86]

Eh, I hate it in Texas. Like I said (I edited my post) you should probably bite the bullet and look forward to grad school.

Its something to think about. Good thing this is not a final decision.

 

[diazona]

Well, I've been researching this university for a week. I saw in the catalog that they offer a B.S. and a M.S. in physics. Also, as an undergrad. in physics, you can get an opportunity in a research project with a faculty member.

Well yeah, but you can do that pretty much anywhere. Is there something specific to University of Vermont that really makes you want to go there, that you can't get anywhere else?

 

[Math Is Hard]

They do have some pretty darn good maple syrup up there.

 

[kaos86]

Well yeah, but you can do that pretty much anywhere. Is there something specific to University of Vermont that really makes you want to go there, that you can't get anywhere else?

well, the U. of Vermont is built in the city of Burlington. Thus, I don't need a car and I could walk anywhere if I want. The bus is free to U. of Vermont students, too. I know some universities offer free transportation from there shuttle buses, however; when I finish school, how will I get around now? I really want a small city or city by the university. I looked at different websites saying that you can walk any where or use a bike in the U. of Vermont. I wish I can take the car I'm sharing with my brother, but I think he needs it more since he's not going to school anymore(He's got his A.A. degree but he does not want to go to a university).

 

[kaos86]

They do have some pretty darn good maple syrup up there.

Maybe I'll taste it if I made my final choice.

 

[Choppy]

I just wanted to add my vote to the 'it would be insane to spend that much money on tuition' tally.

All things being equal, it sounds like this school would be the place for you. But all things aren't equal. In the grand scheme of your life, is 4 years of earlier freedom worth the 20 years it will take to pay off the debt?

And for a fraction of that money you could buy yourself a pretty kickass car.

 

[kaos86]

I just wanted to add my vote to the 'it would be insane to spend that much money on tuition' tally.

All things being equal, it sounds like this school would be the place for you. But all things aren't equal. In the grand scheme of your life, is 4 years of earlier freedom worth the 20 years it will take to pay off the debt?

And for a fraction of that money you could buy yourself a pretty kickass car.

Good point, it seems like I have to be rich to go to any university that is out-of state.
Maybe, I should do some more research and calculate the financial aid and loans. I hope I can find a university that has some "Cheap" method of transportation.

 

[contramundum]

It takes people 20-30 years to pay off the mortgage on a house. I don't see how everyone looks at that as being "okay". Why doesn't the same apply for student loans?

 

[Alienjoey]

If you have little or no income, you should be getting a good deal of financial aid...But it's still a going to be a lot of money that you have to pay, regardless.