Is a high-speed vortex blimp possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a high-speed vortex blimp concept, which is proposed to hover and travel faster than the speed of sound without producing a sonic boom. Participants explore the physical principles and potential challenges associated with this idea, engaging in both technical reasoning and conceptual clarification.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the blimp's ability to fly or achieve the proposed performance, citing fundamental issues with the concept.
  • One participant suggests that the use of air friction for propulsion would not allow the craft to reach the speed of sound, and that its design would likely exacerbate sonic boom effects due to poor aerodynamics.
  • Another participant questions the propulsion mechanism, comparing the proposed craft to a smoke ring and suggesting that it might not generate sufficient thrust to overcome drag.
  • There is a discussion about the motion of the rotating "blimps" and whether they would produce any net forward movement, with some arguing that the forces could balance out, leading to no movement.
  • Concerns are raised about the practicality of moving large masses of air without significant energy expenditure, questioning the assumptions made in the original proposal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement regarding the feasibility of the vortex blimp concept, with multiple competing views on its propulsion and aerodynamic properties. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the viability of the idea.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the original proposal, including assumptions about thrust generation, aerodynamic efficiency, and the mechanics of air movement around the craft. There are unresolved questions about the physical principles involved.

rdunk4
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Hi,

I know this sounds crazy but I just found this really interesting idea at wwww.amasci.com. It's basically a plan for a hovering heavier then air blimp, which can travel faster then the speed of sound, without making a sonic boom. It sounds like a UFO and I just want to know if its phyiscally possible.

The page can be found at http://www.amasci.com/amateur/vortgen.html Under the the title HIGH-SPEED VORTEX BLIMP about half way down the page.


Thx.
 
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Welcome to PF, Rdunk.
The guy uses a lot of fancy words, but I can't see any way in the world that the thing would even fly, let alone with the kind of performance he's proposing.
 
Why wouldn't it work?
 
I'm an amateur, so I'm going to leave the analysis to the pros like Astronuc, Fred Garvin, etc.. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Call it a pilot's instinct on my part.
 
Ok, I'll wait for the experts.

BTW, thanks for the welcome.
 
I might not be what you call an "expert", but no this will not work. There's so many things wrong with this idea that I could go on for hours about how ridiculous it is. But since I don't want to go through trouble I will just state the the speed of sound (or any speed for that matter) can not be reached using any method of friction with air as propulsion. Second, let's say if you could, there is nothing about this blimp thing that would cause it to not break the sound barrier. If anything it would make an even louder sonic boom do to its poor aerodynamics.
 
Ahh, of course the rotating "blimps" would be pushing air. So there would be no thrust.


But then how does a smoke ring move thorugh the air? See the attached gif, this might explain how the craft can propel its self.

Edit: Srry your're saying that there would be thrust right? But its not enough to break the sound barrier. Sounds fair enough. But then it could be argued that as smoke ring produces no drag, this craft would produce no drag, Maybe?? (afterall what's the difference between the craft and a smoke ring). And because it's allmost frictionless it would require very little thrust.

Edit Two: In the gif the rotaing action of the ring itself provides practically no frition. I.e. the acutal otuside surface of the ring is not actually grinding aganst the air molecules but rather moving with them.
 

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I'm no expert, but I'm thinking you wouldn't get any movement out of it, because each "blimp" would have as much forward motion as backward.
I.E. if the "blimps" are rotating inwards, then the outside of the "blimps" would be moving forwards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea he got this from, smoke rings, are a result of air motion, not a cause.
 
I don't know why he thinks it would move particularly fast.

Even if he could arrange it so that the forces and counter-forces do not balance out, what he's essentially got is a paddle wheel powered airship.

I see what he's saying about the laminar flow but what makes him think he can move that huge mass air - from the front of the craft, around the sides and to back - for free.
 
  • #10
Thankfully, this three-year-old crackpot link is now dead. Sorry I missed it at the time. Thread locked.
 

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