Physics Is AstroPhysics risky for career?

[SuperStringboy]

I deadly like to read and think the topics of astrophysics.I am an undgrad student of physics major. Is it really hard to make good career in astrophysics? are not jobs too much available ?

 

[Asphodel]

The total number of jobs directly in astrophysics is decently small, although the number gets bigger depending on how you define the category. As such, it can be harder to get into than other career options. But if you love it, that's not going to stop you...you're doing a major in physics right now, and that's hardly easy, right?

 

[wildman]

From what I can see, a lot of people who study astrophysics end up working as engineers. It is kind of the safety blanket. These people usually end up as really really good engineers too.

 

[SuperStringboy]

From what I can see, a lot of people who study astrophysics end up working as engineers. It is kind of the safety blanket. These people usually end up as really really good engineers too.

Hmm...Interesting... So what can i do? I am really in confusion.

 

[SuperStringboy]

So will it be better to complete graduation in engineering and get the safety blanket.After that i should try to get phd on Astrophysics?

 

[robphy]

Here's the current set of job ads from Physics Today:
http://careers.physicstoday.org/search/browse/
...which fluctuates as the year progresses. [Job ads will drop off the list as well.]

 

[wildman]

No no, don't study engineering. What I am saying is you don't need a degree in engineering to be an engineer. Go look at the IEEE Gold Medal winners. What degree do most have? Physics (including Astrophysics). Study what you like. If it is Astrophysics then study Astrophysics. One of our systems engineers has a physics degree, one of our quality engineers has a physics degree, we have several in optics with physics degrees and in algorthms... None of these people studied engineering one moment in school. Did it hurt their careers, no not at all.

Study your Astrophysics. It that doesn't work out, many companies will hire you as an engineer.

 

[wildman]

I need to give the warning that I know NOTHING about Astrophysics itself. Only that the company I work for hires people with physics degrees (including Geophysics and Astrophysics) as engineers. There doesn't seem to be any advantage to getting an engineering degree vs. a physics degree. I don't know if that is true in general but it is true where I work.

Maybe others can say if that is true in general...

 

[ice109]

Here's the current set of job ads from Physics Today:
http://careers.physicstoday.org/search/browse/
...which fluctuates as the year progresses. [Job ads will drop off the list as well.]

unfortunately a lot of jobs on there are reposted in several sections. interesting to look at anyway.

 

[SuperStringboy]

No no, don't study engineering. What I am saying is you don't need a degree in engineering to be an engineer. Go look at the IEEE Gold Medal winners. What degree do most have? Physics (including Astrophysics). Study what you like. If it is Astrophysics then study Astrophysics. One of our systems engineers has a physics degree, one of our quality engineers has a physics degree, we have several in optics with physics degrees and in algorthms... None of these people studied engineering one moment in school. Did it hurt their careers, no not at all.

Study your Astrophysics. It that doesn't work out, many companies will hire you as an engineer.

Oh thanks i am feeling better after knowing this information.

 

[SuperStringboy]

Here's the current set of job ads from Physics Today:
http://careers.physicstoday.org/search/browse/
...which fluctuates as the year progresses. [Job ads will drop off the list as well.]

Hmm... astrophysics has more jobs than others...!

 

[robphy]

Hmm... astrophysics has more jobs than others...!

While it looks good now, you should try to find out what the trends are in the near future (in time for your entry on the job scene). You might find out some info from http://aip.org/statistics/ . Visit this and the jobs-site above annually as you proceed in your education.

 

[Locrian]

I need to give the warning that I know NOTHING about Astrophysics itself. Only that the company I work for hires people with physics degrees (including Geophysics and Astrophysics) as engineers.

That's unusual, in general. Most companies look for PE (or near PE) engineers to fill positions, largely for legal reasons. Certainly a fair number of physicists work as engineers, but the vast majority of engineering jobs are not open to them.

 

[Locrian]

I deadly like to read and think the topics of astrophysics.I am an undgrad student of physics major. Is it really hard to make good career in astrophysics? are not jobs too much available ?

SuperStringboy,

In my opinion, astrophysics isn't risky so much as it is very slow. You'll have a job, the problem is that the good jobs are very hard to get.

You can expect to get your B.S. in physics, then spend on average 6 years in grad school, and then spend 4-10 years as a postdoc or other temporary position. These positions are often fun, and they give you a lot of freedom professionally, but on the other hand they are also temporary, and can make having any kind of stable life difficult. Many people in astrophysics feel like their careers really didn't begin until 35 or 40 years old.

You can really expect to work in a university the rest of your life. If you love the culture and the material, I think you can be very happy at this. You should also find out what typical salaries are for astrophysicists, and note that they are significantly lower than some other areas of physics. Obviously you aren't in this for money, but it isn't strange for people who say this to still be upset about getting getting paid what a middle school teacher does after 10 years of college education - and that is what you can expect in a postdoc.

In other words, the field is very rewarding for a select few. Make sure you're one of them.

 

[Laura1013]

You can really expect to work in a university the rest of your life.

While it's true that many astrophysics positions are within universities, you are not limited there. There are government jobs available, such as at NASA or ESA centers (as well as DOE and DOD, strangely enough), and there are non-university research institutes that also do work within astrophysics. Staff of observatories mainly maintain the facilities, but some also house astrophysicists who analyze the data.

You should also find out what typical salaries are for astrophysicists, and note that they are significantly lower than some other areas of physics.

I disagree with this. From what I've seen, astrophysicists are paid very well, much higher than I was previously led to believe. Salary depends on a lot of factors, but I would say that astrophysics pays around the same as other physics branches (with some exceptions, such as medical physics, which is one of the highest paying).

 

[wildman]

That's unusual, in general. Most companies look for PE (or near PE) engineers to fill positions, largely for legal reasons. Certainly a fair number of physicists work as engineers, but the vast majority of engineering jobs are not open to them.

Well, it depends on the type of engineer. For REAL engineers (meaning with a license) yes, that is correct. These are the people who build bridges or do public works. However in most of high tech (especially EE and software) real engineers (PEs) are quite rare. A company might keep one or two around for paper work and legal reasons but most of the "engineers" just have a technical degree, ie no legal standing. In software (the jobs where physics majors are often hired into), there are NO licenses in the US. At least that is my experience. No one I work with has a PE license.

 

[SuperStringboy]

Lot of time...If i want to be rewarded and start a good career quickly i think i need to be the second hawking, Need big blow like hawking's singularity...Am i right?
How much its hard or take time to get a permanent job in Top class University as a teacher?
How much is the salary at the post doc period? Is it so low that even i can't buy a simple car?
I would really feel myself lucky if i could join NASA. But i want to research in theoretical Astrophysics.Can theoretical astrophysicists work at nasa? am again in danger? I have a very abstract idea. If i tell you you will tell me fool,mad,goat or something more. So not telling that.But if its true...oh i can't explain.(i asked a physicist about this idea. He told it can be true).Anyway I think to prove it i need new particle like neutralino (as far as i am understanding) which has penetrating power.So University job as teacher is the best for me.

I have taken few attempts to leave physics in my life.But its not leaving me. My life is not so large only completing first year in my university.Result will be published soon. I am scared if i fail ! Really wasted time by not reading textbooks properly and reading other books and thinking about ruuuubish ideas.

I thought if i can do well in astrophysics i will research on string theory later( i am a great fan of string theory and i am well known in my friends as string lover). But if astrophysics has this condition then what condition in career of string theory?Haahaha

Pray for me guys..hehe

 

[Laura1013]

I would really feel myself lucky if i could join NASA. But i want to research in theoretical Astrophysics.Can theoretical astrophysicists work at nasa?

Yes, but as with theoretical astrophysics in general, the number of positions is very small.

I'm a little confused. You've completed one year at a university, is that correct? How do you know enough physics to form a new, publishable particle physics theory?

 

[SuperStringboy]

when was writing the last post two more reviews came. Locrian, Laura,wildman and all have some positive and negetive opinions. At first sometimes i was being happy sometimes scared. Now really enjoying this.More discussion should be go on and we should clear it.

In a article of Mishio kaku he said that now there is a job problem because of old scientists who are called the sputnic group or something like that. In few years they will start to retire. Then for our generation it should be easier to make a good career with astrophysics.

 

[SuperStringboy]

Yes, but as with theoretical astrophysics in general, the number of positions is very small.

I'm a little confused. You've completed one year at a university, is that correct? How do you know enough physics to form a new, publishable particle physics theory?

Yes the information is correct. Only first year. I have have a sell phone. Last year almost always i used it like a palmtop. I took it everywhere and read articles from internet. I have read everything what i like. Even i have given lot of time to understand theories like RS(Randal Sandrum) models I and II. I need two understand the equation.So i am lagging behind because of mathematics.And i am not telling my idea will be true. I will have to do this after few yrs. Just thinking about it. I know nothing of physics now .So my idea is still Philosophy , i have to make it physics.

I think now i should concentrate on my result.If i don't do it then i will have to do the job what einstein did. Nasa is far far away...

 

[Locrian]

In a article of Mishio kaku he said that now there is a job problem because of old scientists who are called the sputnic group or something like that. In few years they will start to retire. Then for our generation it should be easier to make a good career with astrophysics.

Well, it is true the baby boomers will be retiring soon, but how soon is very much in question. More importantly, there's plenty of postdocs to take their place. Remember that the length of postdoc positions has been increasing for decades, and it is especially bad for astrophysics - it isn't strange to hear of people spending 10 years in temporary positions! Combine this with the trend at universities to replace tenured professors with temporary lecturers and the pressure on those entering into the field is still going to be very high.

This shouldn't discourage you, it should just fit the theme I'm trying to lay out for you. Go into this field if you are dedicated to it, and once in it be on your game. You need great grades, fantastic grad research and good references. Cultivate those things and things will go well. Don't and you'll pay a hefty price.

 

[SuperStringboy]

Thanks locrian for a nice post.And thanks for encouraging me.
But how much is the salary in the temporary positions like lecturer in universities? is it very poor?

 

[TMFKAN64]

I have have a sell phone. ... I need two understand the equation.

I don't really mean to be critical here... it's clear that English is not your first language. But you need to be careful. Claiming to have a new theory after one year of studies and announcing it with errors like this does not scream "young genius". It screams "crank".

then i will have to do the job what einstein did.

You will have to get a Ph.D. through the normal route?

 

[Asphodel]

But how much is the salary in the temporary positions like lecturer in universities? is it very poor?

Part-time faculty pay in the USA tends to be pretty bad. Pay for post-docs is likewise on the low side. Doing a post-doc as part-time faculty? The internet has a word for this, and the word is "LOL". P.T. Barnum would have preferred "sucker," which is a bit easier to use in conversation.

 

[SuperStringboy]

Oh no i m not so dare to claim a new theory.Just a simple idea to change our vision to see nature.
I m also not dare to claim myself a genius.
And with einstein's job i mean that i will not get good job and i have be a clark like him.

 

[Locrian]

And with einstein's job i mean that i will not get good job and i have be a clark like him.

What's wrong with working for the patent office? Be careful, what the public knows about Einstein is more myth than reality.

When Einstein formulated special relativity he had (what today would be) a masters in physics, he had a group of scientists he met and consulted with regularly, and his work at the patent office dealt with electromagnetism and light. This public perception that he was a rogue-hermit who produced a new theory while working as a secretary is nonsense.

If you want to "be like Einstein" you'll start by getting a solid education, and continue by consulting with established scientists (including reading published literature) while working in the area you are studying. It's not all that unlike a university job.

 

[mgb_phys]

That's unusual, in general. Most companies look for PE (or near PE) engineers to fill positions, largely for legal reasons. Certainly a fair number of physicists work as engineers, but the vast majority of engineering jobs are not open to them.

That's mainly true in civil engineering. A lot of hitech industry now crosses so many boundaries that the traditional separate engineering institues don't really apply. On a single project I might do software, electronics, mechanical and control system engineering - but I can do that because I'm a physicist!

I would say that doing physics opens more doors than engineering.
Irconically my first job after leaving astronomy fro a Biotech startup involved finding bright spots of fluorescent protein on a black background in CCD images!

 

[Locrian]

That's mainly true in civil engineering.

It is also true in much of materials, metallurgical engineering - and some mechanical engineering. EE I know less about; things could be different there.

That's funny about the spots on the CCD images!

 

[mgb_phys]

It is also true in much of materials, metallurgical engineering - and some mechanical engineering. EE I know less about; things could be different there.

With products the item is certified by external bodies (CE etc) and it doesn't matter who designed it.

That's funny about the spots on the CCD images!

The investors loved it - using Nasa technology from the Space Telescope ( SAOimage + IRAF)

 

[suarez7]

I am interested to know what type of career you can get in engineering from an astrophyics degree. For instance I know a professor teaching physics in Electronic and Electrical Engineering, and he comes from a nanotechnology background. So what could you gain from astrophysics?

 

[twofish-quant]

In a article of Mishio kaku he said that now there is a job problem because of old scientists who are called the sputnic group or something like that. In few years they will start to retire.

They've been saying that for the last thirty years.

One good/bad thing about physics is that you can do it for a very long time. I know 80-year old theoretical physicists that are still publishing good work. So physicists don't retire.

 

[twofish-quant]

If you want to "be like Einstein" you'll start by getting a solid education, and continue by consulting with established scientists (including reading published literature) while working in the area you are studying. It's not all that unlike a university job.

Also the important thing about Einstein's job (and I think there is this letter which he actually mentions this) is that it was an 8 hour job. The 40 hour work week died years ago.

 

[tiffanydione]

I have a degree in Astrophysics. I LOVED my studies and wouldn't have studied anything else! I studied what I LOVE and my passion! I've had many interviews just because of my degree. Some people just want to interview you because they've never met anybody with an Astrophysics degree, LOL. TRUE! I say GO GET IT! STUDY WHAT YOU LOVE! Good luck and give 'em hell!

 

[Functor97]

Its never risky to do what you love!

 

[leontd]

Like others have said the field is certainly small, and the chance of getting a adequate position in that industry is adversely difficult. It also varies on your background.. make sure to graduate at least top 10% in your class, it will significantly improve your chances.

 

[Chronos]

Yep, makes a good launch pad for engineering work. I'm still a closet cosmologist though. PE licenses are not much in demand aside from civil engineering.

 

[Astro_Dude]

I keep hearing all these people saying that astrophysicists can be hired as Engineers, but I'm not finding that all. Look at it from their perspective, why hire a Ph.D. in astrophysics where there's 10 B.E.s who've already studied exactly what they want are applying as well. I've applied for literally hundreds of low level Engineering jobs, and literally gotten 0 call backs on those. The places I get call backs were all where I already knew people through my research... and I didn't get those either. :(

The astrophysicists who get hired as engineers have extremely high coding ability, or have worked directly with the spacecraft /detectors.

 

[tiffanydione]

The astrophysicists who get hired as engineers have extremely high coding ability, or have worked directly with the spacecraft /detectors.

Astro_Dude,

I have a Bachelors in Astrophysics and have worked in engineering for 10+ years. I worked as a Manufacturing Engineer with my Astrophysics degree and now I'm trying to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer. In my many years in engineering I have known people with just a Physics degree (which is part of Astrophysics) that have worked as Mechanical and Electrical Engineers.

Now, I also have coding experience as well, but it's very outdated :( And the engineers I knew with a Physics degree had zero spacecraft /detector experience. They worked with conveyor systems.

Having just a bachelors in Astrophysics can get one a lot of interviews they normally wouldn't get. It's based on your experience, your resume, and how well you sell yourself.

 

[ParticleGrl]

I have a Bachelors in Astrophysics and have worked in engineering for 10+ years...

Having just a bachelors in Astrophysics can get one a lot of interviews they normally wouldn't get. It's based on your experience, your resume, and how well you sell yourself.

I'm experiencing the same thing as Astro_Dude- I have a phd in high energy physics and rarely (if ever) get callbacks for engineering jobs. I get something like 1 callback per 300+ resumes sent out for various positions. Part of the issue is that 10+ years ago, unemployment was around 4%, and now its above 9% (and a whole lot of people are working part time and looking for full time labor). Odds are (today) if the company is looking for an engineer, they can find one, so why bother with the physicist who needs more training?

Another difference is almost certainly that phds suffer from the perception of "over-qualification."

 

[tiffanydione]

I'm experiencing the same thing as Astro_Dude- I have a phd in high energy physics and rarely (if ever) get callbacks for engineering jobs. I get something like 1 callback per 300+ resumes sent out for various positions. Part of the issue is that 10+ years ago, unemployment was around 4%, and now its above 9% (and a whole lot of people are working part time and looking for full time labor). Odds are (today) if the company is looking for an engineer, they can find one, so why bother with the physicist who needs more training?

Another difference is almost certainly that phds suffer from the perception of "over-qualification."

LOL I too am unemployed although 4 weeks after moving to Colorado from Dallas I was offered a job. It fell through but I got that interview just because of my degree. They told me, "We've never met anybody with a degree in Astrophysics." With a PhD in it, with NASA losing the Shuttle program, it may be harder to find a job.

One thing about all the engineers out of work you may have overlooked is the fact there are a TON of engineers who are retiring. Just saying...

I'm glad I got my degree in what I wanted to study. If it over-qualifies me for a lot of jobs then so-be it. I wanted that degree and since I was paying $36K a year to go to TCU I was going to study what I wanted.

Good luck to all of you looking for work. I'm in the same boat.

 

[Chronos]

A solid physics background is always in demand. Most AP jobs come through post grad work. And yes, I got caught by the engineering net, but, am still a closet astronomer.

 

[Tokage]

LOL I too am unemployed although 4 weeks after moving to Colorado from Dallas I was offered a job. It fell through but I got that interview just because of my degree. They told me, "We've never met anybody with a degree in Astrophysics." With a PhD in it, with NASA losing the Shuttle program, it may be harder to find a job.

One thing about all the engineers out of work you may have overlooked is the fact there are a TON of engineers who are retiring. Just saying...

I'm glad I got my degree in what I wanted to study. If it over-qualifies me for a lot of jobs then so-be it. I wanted that degree and since I was paying $36K a year to go to TCU I was going to study what I wanted.

Good luck to all of you looking for work. I'm in the same boat.

Hey! I'm a TCU Astrophysics Undergrad right now! Talk about a small world. I wonder if were allowed to discuss the physics of kicking badger butt here? ;)

I'm really worried about employment after graduating though. Did you take any avenues through TCU specifically that helped you with employment? I would much appreciate anything you could tell me or any advice you could give.

 

[twofish-quant]

Having just a bachelors in Astrophysics can get one a lot of interviews they normally wouldn't get. It's based on your experience, your resume, and how well you sell yourself.

And unfortunately the biggest factor is the shape of the economy when you graduate. I had no problem getting a job when I got my Ph.D., but much of that was due to the fact that I graduated in 1998 during the middle of the dot-com boom, when companies were hiring random people as coders. I know people that were physical therapists, amateur filmmakers, and real estate agents that learned a tiny amount of C++ and got hired as coders during that period.

The reason that I mention this is that one of the most important things during the job search is to stay sane, and it's hard to stay sane when you have a ton of rejection letters. On the other hand, hopefully knowing that you are just unlucky to have graduated in 2011 rather than in 1998 will help you feel a little better.

 

[twofish-quant]

One question that I do have... Have people been applying to finance jobs? I'm trying to keep in touch with the job market, and if the situation is bad enough so that the traditional outlet for Ph.D.'s is closed then things are really bad.

Something that deeply concerns me is that I think it's really bad for the economy if all of the jobs end up in finance, and I think there is something deeply, deeply broken with the US economy. On the other hand, first priority is self-preservation.

 

[Astro_Dude]

LOL I too am unemployed although 4 weeks after moving to Colorado from Dallas I was offered a job. It fell through but I got that interview just because of my degree. They told me, "We've never met anybody with a degree in Astrophysics." With a PhD in it, with NASA losing the Shuttle program, it may be harder to find a job.

One thing about all the engineers out of work you may have overlooked is the fact there are a TON of engineers who are retiring. Just saying...

I'm glad I got my degree in what I wanted to study. If it over-qualifies me for a lot of jobs then so-be it. I wanted that degree and since I was paying $36K a year to go to TCU I was going to study what I wanted.

Good luck to all of you looking for work. I'm in the same boat.

I would absolutely LOVE a job in the DFW area. Unfortunately, almost all the positions in that area require like 10+ years industry experience. Best as I can tell, the low level jobs there all go to peeps who had internships there while in school. I don't blame them for that, but not good for me!

A solid physics background is always in demand. Most AP jobs come through post grad work. And yes, I got caught by the engineering net, but, am still a closet astronomer.

They are, but if you don't know industry standard tools that you need S or TS clearance to even look at, you're ****ed. I remember finding a job on Lockheed's site a few months ago that I could do no problem. It pretty much was just Jackson EM and satellite/aircraft data processing, which I do all the damned time for my Ph.D. However, they asked for like 4 or 5 software proficiencies, all of which I found were DoD analysis tools that I couldn't even fool around with at home because you need to have a security clearance and gov't computer to look at it.

I have found a few places that are not insane and willing to take a PhD out of the gate, but they're almost always in areas I'd rather not move to. Such is life though, I need to eat!

One question that I do have... Have people been applying to finance jobs? I'm trying to keep in touch with the job market, and if the situation is bad enough so that the traditional outlet for Ph.D.'s is closed then things are really bad.

Something that deeply concerns me is that I think it's really bad for the economy if all of the jobs end up in finance, and I think there is something deeply, deeply broken with the US economy. On the other hand, first priority is self-preservation.

I've started, but as I said in my own thread, I'm not entirely thrilled about going into finance. I guess part of that is that I lived in the NYC area for 20 years, and I really don't want to move back there if I can help it. Again though, I'm not really afforded the luxury of geographically limiting myself atm.

Also, thanks again for all y'alls help.

 

[tiffanydione]

Hey! I'm a TCU Astrophysics Undergrad right now! Talk about a small world. I wonder if were allowed to discuss the physics of kicking badger butt here? ;)

I'm really worried about employment after graduating though. Did you take any avenues through TCU specifically that helped you with employment? I would much appreciate anything you could tell me or any advice you could give.

Yes! What a small world! I LOVED my time at TCU! I worked in the career center while going to school there and honestly, they weren't of much help. I had a job lined up at Siemens through a friend I worked with at Siemens many years before I graduated. Now I find I'm over-qualified for soooo many positions, which is a real drag because I can do anything!

I actually wound up getting a Bachelors of General Studies degree in Astrophysics & Computer Science. I had three classes left for a BS but that would take me 5 more years since they're only offered every other year and I came in with an AS degree. I was told 5 years for a BS or 6 months for a BGS. Paying for my own college I opted for the 6 months, LOL.

Tell Dr. Rittby that Tiffany Baugh said, "Hello." He'll remember me. I pretty much made my mark at TCU, lol. That and the new indoor football practice facility is named after my great uncle.

Use the career center but don't put all your eggs in that basket. A fellow student (who may be my cousin, it's weird) she got a job working for NASA in Houston taking care of the supplies on the ISS. If you're a good student (I wasn't the best because I was going through some MAJOR personal issues at the time) your professors may be able to help you get a good job.

Let me know what you find out about the job search. I'm in Colorado now and would LOVE to use my degree!

Good luck and GO FROGS!

 

[Patridor]

it is a good career because you can either do a job with physics or if that fails you can fall back on astronomy