Is 'Avengers: Infinity War' worth the hype?

[Auto-Didact]

First off please keep this thread SPOILER FREE, at least for the time being seeing the film has just released, spoilers go in spoiler tags. Carrying on.

Just saw it. Absolutely loved it. Highly recommend dropping whatever you are doing now and to immediately go see it in IMAX asap.

Also, and this goes very much more for this film in comparison to other Marvel Cinematic Universe films: you definitely need to have seen at least some of the other major films in order to enjoy this one, there is simply too much going on for a newcomer.

So in case you have been living under a rock for the past ten years and haven't seen any of the MCU films yet or don't know where to start but don't have the time to watch ~20 movies before going to watch this one, I'd recommend watching at least the following few in the following order (italic ones are optional):
Avengers
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Guardians of the Galaxy
Captain America: Civil War
Doctor Strange
Black Panther
Thor Ragnarok

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm going to see it tomorrow! Can't wait!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Just got back from seeing it. They went pretty epic. Big time action all movie. Lots of consequences and big cliff hanger. Can't wait to see what is next!

 

[Auto-Didact]

From a pure cinematic filmmaking perspective, without going into any actual story elements, I think this film is a testament to where filmmaking has come the world over. The film is absolutely massive, prior films in the series and entire other large franchises really seems miniscule in comparison. For example, I used to think the Star Wars films were huge both in sheer scale, amount of locations and number of participants, but now they all seem rather self-contained to me, while the MCU has become practically limitless.

Don't get me wrong, the numerological mold of the cinematic trilogy archetype had been challenged far before Marvel Studios stepped into the game, a fact which is also clearly reflected in the number and naming of Star Wars films. However, all major offerings of something larger than a trilogy before this film seem to have been made in largely a rather linear, or multilinear, fashion of progression.

With Infinity War, things have really changed, forever. Not only has the concept of a trilogy practically been dismantled, the story progression has with this film seemingly become fully nonlinear, carefully balancing the order in all the chaos. The following is spoileresque:

Spoiler

despite being the first half of a two part epic, this film actually has in it the self-containedness of being capable of being a final film; if the Marvel Studios stopped releasing any more films tomorrow, I for one would definitely be content.

Then again, on pure naming alone, this is the third Avengers film and being the third in a multi-jointed trilogy, they have actually pulled off not being the worst of the three; I would even argue that the exact opposite is true and that this is clearly the best of the three, but I would have to reserve full judgment until next year, when the second part is released.

In any case, I don't think there has ever been a film of this size hyped this much which has actually gone on to deliver well and beyond on expectations and I can't even imagine any other studio in any other franchise pulling off something similar to what has been achieved here. The bar has been raised and I sincerely hope the rest of the industry is capable of keeping it held up.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

number of participants

I think they did an amazing job balancing screen time for the great number of super heroes. I also adore marvel's humor bits. It's so good. So dry and sarcastic. I love it.

 

[Azurite]

This is not a Spoiler.. it concerns the Infiniti Stones which are part of other series...

"Before creation itself, there were six singularities, then the universe exploded into existence and the remnants of this system were forged into concentrated ingots... Infinity Stones."
— A blonde-haired Benicio Del Toro in Guardians of the Galaxy

These are:

Space Stone = Tesseract
Reality Stone = Aether
Power Stone = Orb
Mind Stone = Loki's Scepter/Vision
Time Stone = Doctor Strange Talisman
Soul Stone = upcoming

When the holder tried to alter the molecular composition of an object.. say turning a knife into air bubbles.. what gem stones were used?

Also when teleporting objects.. does the holder needs to change the molecular structure of matter and make it travel or does he change space itself? What do you think?

 

[Azurite]

What is Thanos body made of? Can he survive a direct nuclear detonation meters away? It takes only very small microseconds for the nuclear fireball to initiate after the trigger was pressed.. so I don't think he would be fast enough to use any of the stones...

 

[Auto-Didact]

What is Thanos body made of? Can he survive a direct nuclear detonation meters away? It takes only very small microseconds for the nuclear fireball to initiate after the trigger was pressed.. so I don't think he would be fast enough to use any of the stones...

Pretty sure he can't straight-up survive an unexpected nuke to the face, but with enough preparation and/or Infinity stones, he could probably easily handle the situation.

When the holder tried to alter the molecular composition of an object.. say turning a knife into air bubbles.. what gem stones were used?

This seems spoileresque.

Also when teleporting objects.. does the holder needs to change the molecular structure of matter and make it travel or does he change space itself? What do you think?

The Space Stone works by opening wormholes in space.

 

[Azurite]

Pretty sure he can't straight-up survive an unexpected nuke to the face, but with enough preparation and/or Infinity stones, he could probably easily handle the situation.
This seems spoileresque.
The Space Stone works by opening wormholes in space.

Does the Reality stone (Aether) work by just transforming normal baryonic matter to dark matter? Some in the net described the Reality Stone as giving the holder the power to change the molecular structure of matter.. was this in the comics? I watched Thor Dark World again last night but didn't see this effect.

 

[Auto-Didact]

Does the Reality stone (Aether) work by just transforming normal baryonic matter to dark matter? Some in the net described the Reality Stone as giving the holder the power to change the molecular structure of matter.. was this in the comics? I watched Thor Dark World again last night but didn't see this effect.

In Thor The Dark World, it was said that the Aether can turn matter into dark matter, yes, but this may have been retconned similar to how the Tesseract was retconned from being a energy source to being a teleportation device.

Spoiler

Then again the non-pure Stone forms may just generally have different properties to the Stone forms we see in Infinity War. The Aether in the form of the Reality Stone seems to be capable of reversibly warping all observable/measurable properties of anything physical for extended periods of time or even indefinitely. It seems similar to Strange's/Loki's illusions, i.e. a specific manipulation of perception of (groups of) people, only more absolute,
i.e. for all practical purposes indistinguishable from an actual manipulation of reality.

 

[Azurite]

In Thor The Dark World, it was said that the Aether can turn matter into dark matter, yes, but this may have been retconned similar to how the Tesseract was retconned from being a energy source to being a teleportation/telekinetic device.

But the Tesseract is the Space Stone.. so teleportation is its natural state (wormhole in spacetime), how can it be energy source (how can manifold be energy source)?

 

[Auto-Didact]

But the Tesseract is the Space Stone.. so teleportation is its natural state (wormhole in spacetime), how can it be energy source (how can manifold be energy source)?

The Tesseract is the cube seen in the prior movies, the Space Stone is what is inside the Tesseract. There is no guarantee that the two do not have somewhat different properties, eg. perhaps the Space Stone encased in the Tesseract utilizes the stone's teleportation ability in order to generate or amplify energy. Don't forget that we saw the Tesseract explicitly being used as a kind of generator/energy source in both Captain America 1 and in The Avengers.

Moreover, if you want to get actual physics involved, there are energy requirements in opening and maintaining wormholes, perhaps this same energy can be utilized if it is not being used to create wormholes. This of course already all is pure speculation, so I'll just leave out any non-linear aspects of gravity as further "explanations".

 

[Azurite]

The Tesseract is the cube seen in the prior movies, the Space Stone is what is inside the Tesseract. There is no guarantee that the two do not have somewhat different properties, eg. perhaps the Space Stone encased in the Tesseract utilizes the stone's teleportation ability in order to generate or amplify energy. Don't forget that we saw the Tesseract explicitly being used as a kind of generator/energy source in both Captain America 1 and in The Avengers.

Moreover, if you want to get actual physics involved, there are energy requirements in opening and maintaining wormholes, perhaps this same energy can be utilized if it is not being used to create wormholes. This of course already all is pure speculation, so I'll just leave out any non-linear aspects of gravity as further "explanations".

I'll watch Captain America 1 again tonight. I re watched many old Marvels movie over the weekend to review the gem stones whereabouts, etc. I think the purpose of Avengers Infinity Wars is to make you watch all the previous movies before.. clever move.

Without the Infinity stones, the stories would be more boring.. which brings us to this.. in the future what technology or items would new Marvel movies be based on that can invoke the same excitement as the Infinity stones?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I saw it last night and thought it was an excellent film. As the lights went down in the theatre I couldn't help but think back to when I was sitting down to watch Iron Man on a lazy afternoon ten years ago. This kind of branching cinema narrative paying off after a decade (basically my whole adult life) blew me away on its own, let alone how good the film was.

I really enjoyed the humour of it and thought the various groups of characters were well suited to each other. For such a packed film it didn't feel unbalanced to me, or rushed. Each scene got the right amount of time.

Does the Reality stone (Aether) work by just transforming normal baryonic matter to dark matter? Some in the net described the Reality Stone as giving the holder the power to change the molecular structure of matter.. was this in the comics? I watched Thor Dark World again last night but didn't see this effect.

It works by magic, in the figurative sense of the word.

Spoiler

It's use doesn't conform to any logically consistent laws of physics but instead seems to follow whatever dream-like logic the user wants. Drax falling into cubes and mantis into ribbons whilst still somehow being alive for example. The one possible limit we see is that when Thanos stops concentrating or moves away the effect reverts.

 

[Azurite]

why is there no SPOILER thread so we can discuss the movie itself...

by the way.. when certain movie has international box office of say 700 million dollars.. does it mean it's net or gross? If gross.. what percentage does the movie company usually get? just estimating how much this movie really earns after deducting all expenses...

 

[Auto-Didact]

You can discuss the movie, just use spoiler tags.

Gross, its usually just amount of money raised by tickets sold.

 

[BWV]

The soul stone in the comics was Adam Warlock who was hinted at in Guardians 2. Also the Silver Surfer supposedly has a movie in the works (now that Disney/marvel owns the rights after the Fox aquisition. SS was a big part of the original comic book IW, so wondering if they are going to work him (and Galactus) in. Thanos in the comics was more of an erratic Caligula-type villain than a crazed environmentalist. In the comic his power-crazed ego was his downfall but that does not really fit the Thanos character in the movie

 

[Auto-Didact]

As you say, there is plenty different between the comics and the MCU. I think, especially with Thanos, that is definitely for the better.

As for the Fox deal, it isn't completely round yet, while the next Avengers movie has already been shot and is in the process of editing.

The directors have also directly said that Adam Warlock will not feature in the Avengers movie next year but will be reserved for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3.

 

[Grinkle]

a crazed environmentalist.

As of today, some estimates say the human race overall is living at about 1.5x a sustainable population / standard of living cross product.

Spoiler

I see in Thanos a portrait of a harsh reality check, not a crazed environmentalist. That is what I liked most about the movie. The bad guy is an embodiment of where we are heading. That is a first world perspective. The third world perspective might be that Thanos is an embodiment of where already are today.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

What is Thanos body made of? Can he survive a direct nuclear detonation meters away? It takes only very small microseconds for the nuclear fireball to initiate after the trigger was pressed.. so I don't think he would be fast enough to use any of the stones...

Depends what iteration of Thanos we are talking about. Read the comic, one of the most overpowered characters.

 

[dahoa]

Infinity Wars is now available in Blu-ray. I just rewatched it.

I'm just wondering.. there are billions and billions of galaxies in the universe.. and the infinity stones is part of the original Big Bang. Why does most events seem to center on Earth and not other planets?

And if the multiverse were true.. that means a real Infinity Wars events is occurring in an alternate universe? By the way.. is there is a race of Thanos humanoids or is he the only one (perhaps created by mutations just like the Hulk)?

 

[Auto-Didact]

Infinity Wars is now available in Blu-ray. I just rewatched it.

I'm just wondering.. there are billions and billions of galaxies in the universe.. and the infinity stones is part of the original Big Bang. Why does most events seem to center on Earth and not other planets?

And if the multiverse were true.. that means a real Infinity Wars events is occurring in an alternate universe? By the way.. is there is a race of Thanos humanoids or is he the only one (perhaps created by mutations just like the Hulk)?

Because it was written by Earthlings. To be fair though they do explore several different places within the galaxy.

The multiverse isn't true. And yes, Thanos is a mutant Titan, the others look like regular humans.

 

[Auto-Didact]

As of today, some estimates say the human race overall is living at about 1.5x a sustainable population / standard of living cross product.

Spoiler

I see in Thanos a portrait of a harsh reality check, not a crazed environmentalist. That is what I liked most about the movie. The bad guy is an embodiment of where we are heading. That is a first world perspective. The third world perspective might be that Thanos is an embodiment of where already are today.

Thanos' argument is actually quite more plausible than most simple carrying capacity equations imply.

In a world, where events have consequences i.e. a realistic world, the impact of such an event across the universe would probably be attributed as occurring due to some specific reason, either divine or natural. Like in the real world, these explanations would become 'wisdom' and so probably produce a religion/ideology which promotes a message which strongly resembles Thanos' stance, assuming he doesn't/didn't spread such a message himself. This would change the future dynamics of the universe considerably, strongly disfavoring the occurence of a repeat event.

 

[dahoa]

Right now they are in the last stages of filming part 2 of the Infinity wars.. there are literally thousands and thousands of people who work in the project.. I wonder why no one leaks the story.. what penalty would they be charged if they leaked it out?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Right now they are in the last stages of filming part 2 of the Infinity wars.. there are literally thousands and thousands of people who work in the project.. I wonder why no one leaks the story.. what penalty would they be charged if they leaked it out?

Hulk smash?

 

[dahoa]

Hulk smash?

Maybe there is a death penalty authorized.. explaining why no one ever leaked any plots?

 

[Grinkle]

Maybe there is a death penalty authorized.. explaining why no one ever leaked any plots?

Look at it from the other side - why would one risk one's career to leak a plot line? What would the motivation be?

 

[dahoa]

Look at it from the other side - why would one risk one's career to leak a plot line? What would the motivation be?

So the employee is barred from revealing it to his family and kids or are they all sworn to secretary. Won't a kid leak it to the classmate, etc.? How can they control 10,000 employees (comprising the graphics artists, etc.) whose work with them is only temporary. Anyone got a clue?

 

[Borg]

I'm sure that the producers are telling everyone the plot.
While the main actors will know more of the plot based on their lines, a hundred extras running away from a green screen won't. Niether will the guy editing a few frames of film with special effects.

See the wiki article on Compartmentalization for more on how its done.

 

[dahoa]

So there is absolutely no leaked information now?

The fate of the entire universe is at very stake right now.

 

[Borg]

You asked how they can control 10,000 employees from disclosing the plot. The answer is that they don't have to. By limiting information to a need-to-know basis, they greatly reduce the amount of information out there. Then, if a plot line gets out, they have a small set of people who could have leaked it. If they can determine from that point who leaked it, that person would probably never work in the industry again. That is a pretty major dis-incentive to disclose anything.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Compartmentalisation aside there often are story leaks around big movies (usually closer to the release) but finding the signal in the noise is very hard. There are so many rumours, theories and outright lies flying through media and online that even if someone has a solid inside leak from their hairdressers’ mums’ friend who works on set verifying is all but impossible.

 

[dahoa]

reasonable explanation... anyway what is the most notable leak in movie history?

And do they plan to release Infinity Wars in 4K bluray? It's already released in normal bluray. And so far.. has it reached more than 2 billion dollar box office?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

reasonable explanation... anyway what is the most notable leak in movie history?

Two years before Empire Strikes Back the actor who played Darth Vader (David Prowse, not James Earl Jones who did the voice) told a bunch of fans that Vader was Luke's father. It was even printed in newspapers, but because we're talking about the late 70s the leak didn't really spread that far.
https://www.slashfilm.com/david-prowse-ruin-the-empire-strikes-back-years-release/

And do they plan to release Infinity Wars in 4K bluray? It's already released in normal bluray. And so far.. has it reached more than 2 billion dollar box office?

These are all things a google search can tell you.

 

[dahoa]

About Infinity Wars and dozens of preludes to it over a decade, it mostly deals with objects that holds incredible powers. This is even true in DC Justice League. So let's try to trace our mythology and occult literature that speaks of such objecst. I know of 2 right now.

1. Rod of Initiation. This is supposed to be wielded by Shamballa Masters.. Shamballa is supposed to be an etheric or dark matter city floating high above the Gobi Desert. When they accepted the Chosen Initiates. They use the Rod of Initiation to awaken the powers of the Neophyte. Some Shamballa denizens can't just shift to physical hadronic matter via dark matter portal so they possesses people.. this is behind the story of David Icke shapeshifting reptilians.

2. Ark of the Covenant. This is like Tesseract, an object of incredible power that can open portals and make it communicate with certain people. Also those who can be near the object should be specially trained and shielded lest they be electrocuted which happened in the story.

What else you know? from our past mythology and occult literature.. this is to compare what idea is more creative and perhaps Marvel stories and Infinity Wars preludes came from these?

 

[dahoa]

By the way. Don't they need to charge the Infinity Stones.. do they have unlimited power source?

Does Thanos have any cousins or part of any hierarchy or political group?

I wondered this when I reviewed more about the occult myth about the Rod of Initiation.. I found out it was charged from the dark matter locale in Sirius. The Solar Logos are like Thanos or even Galactus... quoting from Initiation: Human and Solar:

"3. Planetary, used by a Planetary Logos for initiatory purposes, and for the third, fourth, and fifth major initiations, with the two higher. At the planetary initiation the Rod of Power, wielded by the solar Logos, is charged with pure electrical force from Sirius, and was received by our Logos during the secondary period of creation, from the hands of that great Entity Who is the presiding Lord of the Lords of Karma. He is the repository of the law during manifestation, and He it is Who is the representative in the solar system of that greater Brotherhood on Sirius Whose Lodges are found functioning as the occult Hierarchies in the different planets. Again, He it is Who, with the solar Logos to assist Him, invests the various Initiators with power, gives to Them that word in secret which enables Them to draw down the pure electric force with which Their rods of office must be charged, and commits to Their keeping the peculiar secret of Their particular planetary scheme."

 

[dahoa]

I read about Thanos childhood and teenage years in Titan. He had really murdered a lot of people out of pure evil. Why didn't the movie depict a more menacing figure or look? Did he have alternative beginning where he was innocent?

Whatever, to make Marvel movies more interesting. It has to be more realistic. The realism can be increased by adding a bit of spirituality. Like only highly spiritually developed people can stand the energy of the infinity stones. This was because such object of powers can magnify the positive and negative of any person and influence the surrounding and affect other people. Majority of those who have encounters with the "Rod of Initiation" end up in great turmoil because it magnifies all their nature.. it was written in the "myth" the following that is time tested in occult literature:

"At this stage also the aspirant's life becomes an instrument of destruction in the occult sense of the term. Wherever he goes the force which flows through him from the higher planes and his own inner God produces at times peculiar results upon his environment. It acts as a stimulator of both the good and the evil. The lunar Pitris, or little lives which form the bodies of his brother and his own body, are likewise stimulated, their activity is increased and their power greatly aggravated. This fact is used by Those Who work on the inner side to bring about certain desired ends. This it is also which often causes the temporary downfall of advanced souls. They cannot stand the force pouring into them, or upon them, and through the temporary over-stimulation of their centres and vehicles they go to pieces. This can be seen working out in groups as well as in individuals. But, inversely, if the lunar Lords, or lives of the lower self, have been earlier subjugated and brought under control, then the effect of the force and energy contacted is to stimulate the response of the physical brain consciousness and the head centres to egoic contact. Then the otherwise destructive force becomes a factor for good and a helpful stimulation, and can be used by Those Who know how, to lead men on to further illumination."

Thanos evil nature were simply magnified thousands of times by the Infinity Stones (symbolizing the Rod of Initiation and other objects of powers).

In future Marvel movies, this theme must be explored to make it even more interesting so the story can affect you long even after you left the theater.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I read about Thanos childhood and teenage years in Titan. He had really murdered a lot of people out of pure evil. Why didn't the movie depict a more menacing figure or look? Did he have alternative beginning where he was innocent?

Frankly because that's boring. A very common criticism of superhero films (and related) is that they rely too much on the evil villain who is evil for no discernable reason. It makes their actions confusing, their goals unclear and gives them no relatability. One of the reasons the marvel films have been so successful is their attention to character motivation. They've had a lot of crappy villains but also some very well fleshed out ones (Loki being the prime example). The worst ones are those who are just like you describe; one note evil with nothing else to them (like the dark elf who I can barely remember from Thor 2).

As an example: one of the most powerful scenes in the film was Thanos killing Gomora. The fact that he was crying, that he displayed internal conflict, and still chose to kill his beloved (from his perspective) daughter to achieve his end goals powerfully hammered home how dedicated he is to his cause. He wants to cull the population of the universe and this showed us that deaths hurt him as much as anyone else, but he still believed. If he was a mustache twirling pure evil character this would have been way less interesting.

Whatever, to make Marvel movies more interesting. It has to be more realistic.

More interesting to you? If you much prefer movies with more realism then comic book movies aren't going to be for you. They are an everything-including-the-kitchen-sink genre.

The realism can be increased by adding a bit of spirituality. Like only highly spiritually developed people can stand the energy of the infinity stones. This was because such object of powers can magnify the positive and negative of any person and influence the surrounding and affect other people. Majority of those who have encounters with the "Rod of Initiation" end up in great turmoil because it magnifies all their nature.. it was written in the "myth" the following that is time tested in occult literature:

"At this stage also the aspirant's life becomes an instrument of destruction in the occult sense of the term. Wherever he goes the force which flows through him from the higher planes and his own inner God produces at times peculiar results upon his environment. It acts as a stimulator of both the good and the evil. The lunar Pitris, or little lives which form the bodies of his brother and his own body, are likewise stimulated, their activity is increased and their power greatly aggravated. This fact is used by Those Who work on the inner side to bring about certain desired ends. This it is also which often causes the temporary downfall of advanced souls. They cannot stand the force pouring into them, or upon them, and through the temporary over-stimulation of their centres and vehicles they go to pieces. This can be seen working out in groups as well as in individuals. But, inversely, if the lunar Lords, or lives of the lower self, have been earlier subjugated and brought under control, then the effect of the force and energy contacted is to stimulate the response of the physical brain consciousness and the head centres to egoic contact. Then the otherwise destructive force becomes a factor for good and a helpful stimulation, and can be used by Those Who know how, to lead men on to further illumination."

Thanos evil nature were simply magnified thousands of times by the Infinity Stones (symbolizing the Rod of Initiation and other objects of powers).

In future Marvel movies, this theme must be explored to make it even more interesting so the story can affect you long even after you left the theater.

I can't see how any of this adds to the films, or solves your apparent issue of a lack of realism in comic book films.

 

[Grinkle]

This would change the future dynamics of the universe considerably, strongly disfavoring the occurence of a repeat event.

You mean that aside from the direct effects of culling leaving fewer individuals who use resources, the long term effects of the culling would be to permanently change behavior to avoid a subsequent culling event? Did I get you right?

 

[Auto-Didact]

Whatever, to make Marvel movies more interesting. It has to be more realistic. The realism can be increased by adding a bit of spirituality. Like only highly spiritually developed people can stand the energy of the infinity stones. This was because such object of powers can magnify the positive and negative of any person and influence the surrounding and affect other people. Majority of those who have encounters with the "Rod of Initiation" end up in great turmoil because it magnifies all their nature.. it was written in the "myth" the following that is time tested in occult literature:

"At this stage also the aspirant's life becomes an instrument of destruction in the occult sense of the term. Wherever he goes the force which flows through him from the higher planes and his own inner God produces at times peculiar results upon his environment. It acts as a stimulator of both the good and the evil. The lunar Pitris, or little lives which form the bodies of his brother and his own body, are likewise stimulated, their activity is increased and their power greatly aggravated. This fact is used by Those Who work on the inner side to bring about certain desired ends. This it is also which often causes the temporary downfall of advanced souls. They cannot stand the force pouring into them, or upon them, and through the temporary over-stimulation of their centres and vehicles they go to pieces. This can be seen working out in groups as well as in individuals. But, inversely, if the lunar Lords, or lives of the lower self, have been earlier subjugated and brought under control, then the effect of the force and energy contacted is to stimulate the response of the physical brain consciousness and the head centres to egoic contact. Then the otherwise destructive force becomes a factor for good and a helpful stimulation, and can be used by Those Who know how, to lead men on to further illumination."

Thanos evil nature were simply magnified thousands of times by the Infinity Stones (symbolizing the Rod of Initiation and other objects of powers).

In future Marvel movies, this theme must be explored to make it even more interesting so the story can affect you long even after you left the theater.

I don't think going such a route would help the MCU at all. The story, especially Infinity War, is an epic tragedy almost on par with the great classic Homeric work. When I saw it in the cinema, at the end everyone left in dead silence, indicating that the story is definitely as powerful and memorable as it needs to be. Judging from the critical reception and box office numbers it is exactly what the audience wants. Judging from YouTube and comic book movie forums, what's going to happen in Avengers 4 is all people have been talking about since the movie hit.

If you just want more realism and a good dose of symbolism, go check out the DC films. They range from amazing (The Dark Knight) to good (Man of Steel, Batman v Superman) to trash (Justice League). Outside of that you have the older but not outdated films such as Blade, Hellboy, Spawn, Watchmen and Ghost Rider.

 

[Auto-Didact]

You mean that aside from the direct effects of culling leaving fewer individuals who use resources, the long term effects of the culling would be to permanently change behavior to avoid a subsequent culling event? Did I get you right?

Yes. It is very likely people would blame the event on some unequilibrium in the world and would then go to great lengths i.e. the dogmatic institutionalisation of an ideology. Assuming they identified the correct parameter out of balance, namely overpopulation, the effects of this ideology would almost certainly keep the population in check for a long time to come through social, cultural and political restrictions.

Judging from actual history though, populations restricted by such state level planned interventions empirically represent very unstable states of the system and therefore a tremendous amount of effort is required to keep the population in check and so uphold the state of said system, far too much effort for populations to do so naturally; a large enough deviation will spontaneously lead to a collapse to a more stable disordered state.

One way around this is by making the population begin to adhere to the new restrictions spontaneously through a self-reinforcing complete indoctrination i.e. by making it a totalitarian ideal which the followers themselves want to achieve and uphold for ethical and/or moral reasons. The above can be modeled as a Kuramoto type equation.

 

[Grinkle]

Judging from actual history though, such state level planned interventions empirically represent very unstable states of the system and therefore they require a lot of effort to uphold, far too much effort for populations to do so naturally; a large enough deviation will lead to a spontaneous collapse to a more stable disordered state.

This matches my intuition. Do you have any examples of stable long-term deviation from natural human behavior? Anything I can think of only lasted a few generations at most. You didn't claim there are any such examples, I'm just curious if you know of any.

 

[Auto-Didact]

This matches my intuition. Do you have any examples of stable long-term deviation from natural human behavior? Anything I can think of only lasted a few generations at most. You didn't claim there are any such examples, I'm just curious if you know of any.

I haven't reviewed the literature on this myself, but from intuition I would presume almost all evolved traditions, for example marriage, patriotism, the upholding of religious doctrines, (inter)national rights and laws, ethical and moral frameworks, social reforms and so on all represent stable long-term deviations from (more) natural human behaviour, that being extremely animalistic behavior i.e. just living based on our base urges.

There are of course also different levels of stability i.e. for homogeneous groups tribalism is already more stable than not working together, while for non-homogeneous groups the baser form of tribalism needs to be amended to something like patriotism or at least the shared belief in some ideal capable of uniting the heterogeneous groups.

 

[Grinkle]

It is very likely people would blame the event on some unequilibrium in the world and would then go to great lengths i.e. the dogmatic institutionalisation of an ideology.

A different (perhaps different, or perhaps just a subset of your general idea) outcome occurs to me - one that I would enjoy seeing explored in the next film, dark as it is.

Some societies might decide culling events are good things and pray for the return of Thanos to do a repeat performance. I will claim without data that for most individuals abstaining from reproduction is a lot of effort, and also for most individuals its repugnant to purposefully cull within the tribe. I can imagine a society that prefers to live without restriction and accepts that the price of this lifestyle is the occasional visit from Thanos - awful but perhaps to some less awful than culling from within and less awful than living forever with other restrictions on lifestyle.

 

[dahoa]

Frankly because that's boring. A very common criticism of superhero films (and related) is that they rely too much on the evil villain who is evil for no discernable reason. It makes their actions confusing, their goals unclear and gives them no relatability. One of the reasons the marvel films have been so successful is their attention to character motivation. They've had a lot of crappy villains but also some very well fleshed out ones (Loki being the prime example). The worst ones are those who are just like you describe; one note evil with nothing else to them (like the dark elf who I can barely remember from Thor 2).

As an example: one of the most powerful scenes in the film was Thanos killing Gomora. The fact that he was crying, that he displayed internal conflict, and still chose to kill his beloved (from his perspective) daughter to achieve his end goals powerfully hammered home how dedicated he is to his cause. He wants to cull the population of the universe and this showed us that deaths hurt him as much as anyone else, but he still believed. If he was a mustache twirling pure evil character this would have been way less interesting.
More interesting to you? If you much prefer movies with more realism then comic book movies aren't going to be for you. They are an everything-including-the-kitchen-sink genre.
I can't see how any of this adds to the films, or solves your apparent issue of a lack of realism in comic book films.

I was thinking along the line of Jedi theme in Marvel movies.

Anyway. There are now tons of superhero movies and tv series.. why the sudden increase? as escape to reality? what do you and others think?

 

[Auto-Didact]

I was thinking along the line of Jedi theme in Marvel movies.

Anyway. There are now tons of superhero movies and tv series.. why the sudden increase? as escape to reality? what do you and others think?

Simple: if the CG, acting and storytelling are done well, it turns out people will go out in droves to see such films, making this a very profitable business. Turns out that there is an even stronger demand for large cinematic universes with overarching stories spanning several sequels and multiple crossovers across many years. After The Avengers succeeded, things were on big time, for it demonstrated that this was an insanely profitable formula for a moviemaking studio.

Kevin Feige, Jon Favreau et al. gambled big when they started on this path with Iron Man, Hulk and Thor, all B to C-level heroes at best at that time. The timeline isn't exactly accidental either seeing a large subset of paying fans, i.e. 20 to 40 year old men grew up watching the classic Marvel cartoons with large multi-episode story arcs where the crossover between comics was already introduced. The same goes for all kids who grew up after this generation.

This isn't the entire story though, for it doesn't explain the unexpected twist Marvel had in store: turning unknown comics, not even introduced as cartoons, into household blockbuster names using dedicated writers and directors in conjunction with talented actors, fueled by large sums of cash. After the success of Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool, the floodgates were opened: here were obscure comics making hundreds of millions of dollars on the big screen. This opened the way for both Doctor Strange and Black Panther. Given that there are tonnes of comics to pick from, it's no wonder that is exactly what they are doing.

It sounds easier than it is though, seeing WB/DC tried to do the same and failed miserably with the DCEU/Justice League. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, literally the most famous superheroes ever, raked in nowhere near as much money as the MCU films. It is obvious now that the years Marvel took in fleshing out their universe through several good films was beneficial, while DC's strategy, i.e. merely trying to play a game of financial catch up instead of focusing on their films have done them more harm than good.

This just goes to show that good storytelling paired with action helped along by CG goes a very long way. Superhero stories are always semi-relatable narratives. The MCU ones seem to tie into many modern day themes and issues such as terrorism, cybersecurity, overpopulation and the classic hero origins and teamwork stories, while the DCEU ones seem to be the dreadfulness of the world, xenophobia, mankind against the gods and hope in the face of unbeatable odds.

 

[dahoa]

Let me take this opportunity to inquire something I want to know. What makes those movies so unrealistic (Wanda, Vision, Doctor Strange powers are more realistic since they are just hidden extensions of laws of physics beyond the standard model) is the body banging where for example Captain America was tossed up and thrown against wall or from 3 stories and yet no body injury. The most extreme is Iron Man where he could be hit by missiles or truck and yet his body doesn't suffer any fractures or broken bones. But in the case of the super high tech Iron Man. What would happen if his suit can control Inertia and Gravity? If it could control inertia, can you deflect the momentum of the punch from Hulk or the impact from a truck?

 

[dahoa]

Simple: if the CG, acting and storytelling are done well, it turns out people will go out in droves to see such films, making this a very profitable business. Turns out that there is an even stronger demand for large cinematic universes with overarching stories spanning several sequels and multiple crossovers across many years. After The Avengers succeeded, things were on big time, for it demonstrated that this was an insanely profitable formula for a moviemaking studio.

Kevin Feige, Jon Favreau et al. gambled big when they started on this path with Iron Man, Hulk and Thor, all B to C-level heroes at best at that time. The timeline isn't exactly accidental either seeing a large subset of paying fans, i.e. 20 to 40 year old men grew up watching the classic Marvel cartoons with large multi-episode story arcs where the crossover between comics was already introduced. The same goes for all kids who grew up after this generation.

This isn't the entire story though, for it doesn't explain the unexpected twist Marvel had in store: turning unknown comics, not even introduced as cartoons, into household blockbuster names using dedicated writers and directors in conjunction with talented actors, fueled by large sums of cash. After the success of Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool, the floodgates were opened: here were obscure comics making hundreds of millions of dollars on the big screen. This opened the way for both Doctor Strange and Black Panther. Given that there are tonnes of comics to pick from, it's no wonder that is exactly what they are doing.

It sounds easier than it is though, seeing WB/DC tried to do the same and failed miserably with the DCEU/Justice League. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, literally the most famous superheroes ever, raked in nowhere near as much money as the MCU films. It is obvious now that the years Marvel took in fleshing out their universe through several good films was beneficial, while DC's strategy, i.e. merely trying to play a game of financial catch up instead of focusing on their films have done them more harm than good.

This just goes to show that good storytelling paired with action helped along by CG goes a very long way. Superhero stories are always semi-relatable narratives. The MCU ones seem to tie into many modern day themes and issues such as terrorism, cybersecurity, overpopulation and the classic hero origins and teamwork stories, while the DCEU ones seem to be the dreadfulness of the world, xenophobia, mankind against the gods and hope in the face of unbeatable odds.

Here is an interesting comment about What the MCU gets right that the DCEU gets wrong.. but it didn't mention the villians so evil in DECU...

Read More: https://www.looper.com/104232/mcu-gets-right-dceu-gets-wrong/?utm_campaign=clip

https://www.looper.com/104232/mcu-g...&utm_campaign=zergnet_3148935&utm_content=258

 

[dahoa]

There is another reason why such movies are so beloved especially when the storylines are so complex and realistic. It has to do with our racial or collective psyche or Freudian or Jung storehouses of myths and legends. I don't know the exact words to describe it. So I need to find some references where it summarizes all stories and myths from the beginning about the battle between the forces and good and evil (Infinity War is outright display of it).

For example. I'll mention the occult literature which described the events that transpired in times long distant past when powers like those possessed by X-Men and Avengers and stuff were commonplace.

"The cleavage between the two groups (the one expressing the forces of materialism and the other the energy of light) grew gradually wider until towards the close of the Atlantean Age it was so wide, the lines of demarcation between the two schools of life and thought were so clear, that a crisis was
precipitated in the then civilised world of which the present conflict is a definite effect. Then took place the great war between the Lords of Form and the Lords of Being, or between the Forces of Matter and the Great White Lodge. The Forces of Light triumphed because the Hierarchy was forced to intervene potently, and, with the aid of certain great Lives extraneous to our planetary life, They brought the Atlantean civilisation to an abrupt end after a long period of chaos and disaster. This took place through the medium of a culminating catastrophe which wiped hundreds of thousands of human beings off the face of the earth. This historical event has been preserved for us in the universal legend of the great flood."

Imagine Thanos being extraneous to our planetary life bringing the civilization to an abrupt end...

And I'm not saying I believe the above. It's just example an Occult mythology of this ancient conflict. Do you have references of other mythologies that described similar power struggles... remember Zeus, Olympus, Summerian, Babylonian, etc. stuff? So that we can trace any possible subconscious linkages with them in our Marvel superheroes obsession these days?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

There is another reason why such movies are so beloved especially when the storylines are so complex and realistic.

You keep using the word "realistic" but I'm not sure in what context. Superhero movies are far from realistic in the fact they're straight fantasy. If you mean that the character motivations and reactions are realistic then yes in many cases they are and that level of good acting/writing makes for an engaging film. It's not unique to the genre, though you could make an argument that Marvel has done very well in developing its characters compared to past and rival superhro franchises.

It has to do with our racial or collective psyche or Freudian or Jung storehouses of myths and legends. I don't know the exact words to describe it. So I need to find some references where it summarizes all stories and myths from the beginning about the battle between the forces and good and evil (Infinity War is outright display of it).

The term you're looking for is Jungian archetype. People have drawn a parallel between pantheon myths and superheros before (often within the genre). Despite that there have been many bad and unpopular superhero films so if it is a factor it is not a dominant one in Marvel's success.