Is Fermat's Last Theorem Solvable for n=4 Using Pythagorean Triples?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mente oscura
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Theorem
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the solvability of Fermat's Last Theorem for the case when n=4, specifically exploring the relationship between Pythagorean triples and the theorem. Participants examine a proposed proof and engage in technical reasoning regarding the implications of breaking down certain variables into coprime factors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a demonstration claiming to prove Fermat's Last Theorem for n=4 by showing that two Pythagorean triples cannot share two common elements.
  • Another participant agrees with the overall approach but questions the method of breaking down the variable b into four coprime factors, suggesting that other configurations could also work.
  • Further discussion arises about the implications of choosing different numbers of factors and whether the reasoning holds under those conditions.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the coprimality of certain expressions, particularly whether g² + f² and g² - f² can be assumed to be relatively coprime.
  • A participant clarifies that only one of g or f needs to be even to maintain certain properties in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the approach towards proving Fermat's Last Theorem for n=4 but express differing views on specific steps and assumptions made in the proof. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of coprimality and the breakdown of variables.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the coprimality of certain expressions and the choice of factorization for the variable b. The proof relies on specific conditions that may not be universally applicable.

mente oscura
Messages
167
Reaction score
0
Hello.

I share with you , a demonstration, which authorship is mine.

I do not know, if it exists, similar other one.Section A) demonstration Fermat’s Last Theorem, for n = 4.

Let \ A, \ B, \ C \ \in{\mathbb{N}} / A, \ C \ = \ odd; \ B \ = \ even \ / A^2+B^2=C^2

(*)We consider, as possible:

A=x^2

B=y^2

C=z^2

So:

x^4+y^4=z^4

According to the "traditional" formulas, to obtain "Pythagorean Triplet":

A=M^2-N^2

B=2MN

C=M^2+N^2

Properties:

1ª)

C+B=M^2+N^2+2MN=(M+N)^2

C+B=z^2+y^2=(M+N)^2. Por (*)

2ª)

C-B=M^2+N^2-2MN=(M-N)^2

C-B=z^2-y^2=(M-N)^2. Por (*)

Conclusion: we get two "Pythagorean triplet", in which two of its elements are equal.

z^2+y^2=(M+N)^2

z^2-y^2=(M-N)^2

Consideration: If we show that it is not possible that two "Pythagorean triplet", have two common elements, we will have shown the Fermat Last Theorem, for n = 4.

Section B) demonstration of the impossibility of that, two "Pythagorean triplet", have two common elements:

Let \ a, \ b, \ c \ \in{\mathbb{N}} / a, \ c \ = \ odd; \ b \ = \ even \ / a^2+b^2=c^2.(1)

Sean \ d, \ b, \ c \ \in{\mathbb{N}} / d, \ c \ = \ odd; \ b \ = \ even \ / c^2+b^2=d^2.(2)

Considerations:

1º) a, b, c, d, co-prime, so are primitive Pythagorean Triplets.

2º) “c” It is the odd small, which meets (1) y (2)Option 1º)

a^2+b^2=c^2

a=m^2-n^2

b=2mn

c=m^2+n^2Option 2º)

c^2+b^2=d^2

c=u^2-v^2

b=2uv

d=u^2+v^2

Course: "m" and "n" co-prime, same as "u" and "v".

By Option 1º) y Option 2º):

b=2mn=2uv

I'm going to break down "b" in four co-prime factors: "e", "f", "g" and "h", such that:

b=2efgh

And, we assign, for example:

m=ef

n=gh

u=eg

v=fh

Being: e=mcd(m,u), f=mcd(m,v), g=mcd(n,u), h=mcd(n,v)

Note: “mcd”= greatest common divisor.

Now, using the other element common to the Pythagorean Triplets: "c"

c=m^2+n^2=e^2f^2+g^2h^2

c=u^2-v^2=e^2g^2-f^2h^2

Therefore:

e^2f^2+g^2h^2= e^2g^2-f^2h^2

g^2h^2+f^2h^2= e^2g^2-e^2f^2

h^2(g^2+f^2)=e^2(g^2-f^2)

To be "h" and "e" co-prime, and, also, g^2+f^2 y g^2-f^2, (note that "g" or "f" should be "evenr"), it follows that:

h^2=g^2-f^2

e^2=g^2+f^2

Thus, we have other two Pythagorean Triplets with two common elements, but:

c \ > \ g

Since:

c=m^2+n^2>n^2=g^2h^2>g^2>g

It is not possible, since we had considered "c", as the odd minor who met the conditions (1) and (2).

Whereupon, demonstrated the Section B)" and, therefore, also the "Section A)", concluding the impossibility of:

x^4+y^4=z^4


Regards.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I haven't checked through all of your proof, but yes, your approach is absolutely correct : the main step towards FLT4 is to prove that there can't be any 4-tuple $(a, b, c, d)$ satisfying $a^2 + b^2 = c^2$ and $b^2 + c^2 = d^2$. The standard step actually is to rearrange and multiply both sides to get $(ad)^2 = c^4 - b^4$ and it can be shown by infinite descent that $x^4 - y^4 - z^2$ over $\Bbb C^3$ has no integer points over it.

EDIT : Hold it. I don't understand your step when you break up $b$ in 4 coprime factors $e, f, g$ and $h$. $b = 2mn = 2uv$ is absolutely correct and upto that I agree, and as a conclusion $mn = uv$, but I am not sure why you are assuming that $(m, n, u, v) = (ef, gh, eg, fh)$. How about $(m, n, u, v) = (pqr, xyz, pxy, qrz)$? In that case $m$ and $n$ are coprime, so are $u$ and $v$ and $m \cdot n = u \cdot v = xyzpqr$ also.

So my point is why break $b$ in $\boxed{4}$ parts? Why not $6$ or $8$ parts, like I did above?
 
Last edited:
mathbalarka said:
I haven't checked through all of your proof, but yes, your approach is absolutely correct : the main step towards FLT4 is to prove that there can't be any 4-tuple $(a, b, c, d)$ satisfying $a^2 + b^2 = c^2$ and $b^2 + c^2 = d^2$. The standard step actually is to rearrange and multiply both sides to get $(ad)^2 = c^4 - b^4$ and it can be shown by infinite descent that $x^4 - y^4 - z^2$ over $\Bbb C^3$ has no integer points over it.

EDIT : Hold it. I don't understand your step when you break up $b$ in 4 coprime factors $e, f, g$ and $h$. $b = 2mn = 2uv$ is absolutely correct and upto that I agree, and as a conclusion $mn = uv$, but I am not sure why you are assuming that $(m, n, u, v) = (ef, gh, eg, fh)$. How about $(m, n, u, v) = (pqr, xyz, pxy, qrz)$? In that case $m$ and $n$ are coprime, so are $u$ and $v$ and $m \cdot n = u \cdot v = xyzpqr$ also.

So my point is why break $b$ in $\boxed{4}$ parts? Why not $6$ or $8$ parts, like I did above?

Hello.

where is the problem?

b=2mn=2uv=2xyzpqr

According to your example:

m=pqr

n=xyz

u=pxy

v=qrz

We operate:

c=m^2+n^2=p^2q^2r^2+x^2y^2z^2

c=u^2-v^2=p^2x^2y^2-q^2r^2z^2

p^2q^2r^2+x^2y^2z^2=p^2x^2y^2-q^2r^2z^2

q^2r^2(p^2+z^2)=x^2y^2(p^2-z^2)

q^2r^2=p^2-z^2

x^2y^2=p^2+z^2

Two Pythagorean Triplets with two common elements, but:

c \ > \ p

c=m^2+n^2=p^2q^2r^2+x^2y^2z^2

Therefore:

c \ > \ p^2 \ > \ p

Regards.
 
Excellent, you have made it clear that even $4$ or $8$ or higher factors would result the same. I'll move on to the next point :

mente oscura said:
e^2f^2+g^2h^2= e^2g^2-f^2h^2

g^2h^2+f^2h^2= e^2g^2-e^2f^2

h^2(g^2+f^2)=e^2(g^2-f^2)

To be "h" and "e" co-prime, and, also, g^2+f^2 y g^2-f^2, (note that "g" or "f" should be "evenr"), it follows that:

h^2=g^2-f^2

e^2=g^2+f^2

I don't understand this bit. $h$ and $e$ are coprime, yes, as $(m, n) = 1$, but why are $g^2 + f^2$ and $g^2 - f^2$ relatively coprime too? Please clarify.

[Note : If $ab = xy$, it is necessary condition to have $(a, x) = (b, y) = 1$ to conclude $a = y$ and $b = x$. Take for example, $5 \cdot 4 = 2 \cdot 10$, where $4$ and $10$ have nontrivial gcd]
 
mathbalarka said:
Excellent, you have made it clear that even $4$ or $8$ or higher factors would result the same. I'll move on to the next point :
I don't understand this bit. $h$ and $e$ are coprime, yes, as $(m, n) = 1$, but why are $g^2 + f^2$ and $g^2 - f^2$ relatively coprime too? Please clarify.

[Note : If $ab = xy$, it is necessary condition to have $(a, x) = (b, y) = 1$ to conclude $a = y$ and $b = x$. Take for example, $5 \cdot 4 = 2 \cdot 10$, where $4$ and $10$ have nontrivial gcd]

Hello.

I have considered that "g" or "f" is an even number. Only one.

You can choose, what is the pair, and see how the result is similar.

In this case, the show is trivial:

Let \ i \ , \ j \in{\mathbb{N}} \ / one \ is \ even \ and \ the \ other \ odd

If \ k |(i+j) \ and \ k |(i-j) \rightarrow{} k | (i+j+i-j) \rightarrow{}k|i

If \ k |(i+j) \ and \ k |(i-j) \rightarrow{} k | (i+j-i+j) \rightarrow{}k|j

Conclusion:

"i" and "j" they are not coprime.

Regards.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
627
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
9K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
2K