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I Is it possible to store electrons in a metallic chamber?

  1. Sep 1, 2018 #1
    Can you store them in a tungsten chamber without using any magnetic fields. And without any magnetic field will they leak out because of the size difference between electron and tungsten atoms. CERN was able to do it with it LEP collider (electron positron collider) so if any of the CERN scientists see this please replay.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 1, 2018 #2

    Drakkith

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    The electrons would be stored in exactly the same way that a metallic capacitor stores them. They would occupy the conduction band of the material and would be free to travel throughout the conductor.

    Electrons are MUCH smaller than atoms, but they aren't stored because of their size difference. Instead they are stored because they can occupy the conduction band of the material, whereas large metallic ions cannot. They would leak out over time through whatever insulator physically connected and supported the metal, just like in a regular capacitor.
     
  4. Sep 1, 2018 #3
    I dont know if you understood what Iam trying to say just to clarify the chamber consist of empty volume of vacuum in which the electrons occopy with connection to the chamber walls as in they are free to hit the chamber walls. And also their repulsivity increases as more electron occupy that volume so due to that impulsivity they might leak out of the chaamber just like air molecules in a cycle tire over time.
     
  5. Sep 1, 2018 #4

    Drakkith

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    Kind of. They would repel each other and quickly get taken up into the chamber walls. After that they would leak out slowly through whatever insulating material you have connected to the chamber. If the voltage is high enough, then you can break down the insulator or even eject electrons across a vacuum. However, note that this behavior is nothing like the behavior of a molecule of, say, hydrogen gas, which can leak through almost anything thanks to its extremely small size. It can simply pass through spaces in the metallic lattice of the chamber until it reaches the outside if I remember correctly.

    The small mass and high charge of electrons cause them to behave very differently than a much more massive and neutrally charged molecule or atom.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2018 #5

    hilbert2

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    It's a fun excercise to use dimensional analysis to estimate the (huge) pressure exerted on the walls of a hypothetical 1 cubic meter container that could hold a mole of electron gas inside it, without any opposing charges.
     
  7. Sep 2, 2018 #6

    sophiecentaur

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    To get an idea of the forces involved, it is much easier to calculate the force between two charged objects, 1C of charge, spaced by 1m (assuming the objects are 'small'. That's using SI units, of course. It is interesting to calculate the gravitational force between two 1kg masses, placed 1m apart and compare the two forces. SI units in both cases. Gravity is soooo weak. (I'm leaving this as a 'exercise for the student'. :smile:)
     
  8. Sep 2, 2018 #7

    ZapperZ

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    There is an error here. LEP definitely use magnetic fields not confine and focused the electron beam. In fact all synchrotron storage rings do!

    So your example of something that can be done is severely flawed.

    Any charge particle near a neutral metallic surface will be attracted to it due to its image charge.

    Zz.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2018 #8
    If we heat up the chamber 3 dimensionally with near equal level of temperature it will dramatically slow down the escape of the electron for a shot period of time ofcourse they keep gaining energy with enough energy they will eventually escape.

     
  10. Sep 3, 2018 #9

    ZapperZ

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    What does temperature have anything to do with this? What “physics” are you using? Have you never done image charge problem?

    Zz.
     
  11. Sep 3, 2018 #10

    Drakkith

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    It will not. In fact it would likely accelerate the loss.
     
  12. Sep 7, 2018 #11
    Obviously they won't go out the way, where energy is being inputed so it will slow them until they over come given energy. Let's say you placed a conductive rode in to out chamber connected to chamber with heat resistive material so now will the electron in the chamber escape through the rode?
     
  13. Sep 7, 2018 #12

    Drakkith

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    Energy is a property of an object or a field. It is not something in and of itself. Depending on what form the energy takes it could hinder, help, or do nothing to the electrons.
     
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