News Is Kim Jong-Il's Behavior a Sign of Mental Instability?

[Smurf]

I've heard many people on these forums claiming Il is crazy, a psychopath, or other such things. I havn't seen or heard any such reports about him having any such condition anywhere. How true is this? How much is just fear mongering?

 

[Pengwuino]

No, sorry, as much as I'm sure you'd like to believe it, it is not fear mongering. He's a short little korean minime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong_Il is a decent start

Some of these stories however come from defectors from the DPRK, and are considered more credible. Kim's former Japanese chef has said in newspaper interviews that Kim has a 10,000-bottle wine cellar, likes blonde Western women, collects Mazda RX-7 sports cars, stages all-night banquets at which attendance and heavy drinking is compulsory for high officials (this was also a habit of Stalin's), and has a troupe of strippers for his personal entertainment. According to this account Kim once sent his wife and children on a secret trip to Tokyo Disneyland. Kim is also said to be a film fan, owning a collection of some 20,000 video tapes [3].

collects Mazda RX-7 sports cars

If that doesn't convince you of his insanity, nothing will

 

[Smurf]

Yes I read through the entire article before posting. I didn't conclude that he was crazy though. Eccentricity is not insanity.

 

[Pengwuino]

Pff, mazda... come on... nothing good can come from that.

Plus of course, lobbing missiles over Japan with US aircraft carriers a few hundred miles away is somewhat odd to say the least.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,1474671,00.html

 

[Smurf]

But analysts say such launches are part of a familiar negotiating tactic - that of creating a minor crisis which could force concessions.

I just think that if he was a psychopath there'd be more concrete evidence than collecting mazda's and liking big bosomed blonds. I'd really hope a rumor as wide-spread as this would be based on something.

 

[Smurf]

A day later the official North Korean news agency quoted the North Korean foreign ministry as calling Mr Bush a "hooligan, bereft of any personality as a human being, to say nothing of stature as president of a country. He is a half-baked man in terms of morality, and a philistine whom we can never deal with."

Seems pretty stable to me

 

[Pengwuino]

... what is this a joke?

Bush makes a speech, liberals cry themselves to sleep and call it fear mongering. North Korea launches missiles at Japan for years and "Oh well... he's not so bad"?

 

[Pengwuino]

Seems pretty stable to me

hehe, ok michael moore

Man you Canadians must have something in your water...

ha, used 'your' in a sentence correctly.

 

[Smurf]

Bush makes a speech, liberals cry themselves to sleep and call it fear mongering. North Korea launches missiles at Japan for years and "Oh well... he's not so bad"?

I'm just saying he's not insane. Just like all that hype a while back that Zarqawi was a psychopath who kills for pleasure. I just need more evidence than that.

(besides, it's not like he actually hit japan)

 

[Smurf]

Man you Canadians must have something in your water...

Yeah, it's called acid rain... you yanks are the ones putting it there.

 

[Pengwuino]

Well, facts say he's insane. "it's not like he actually hit japan". My God. Thats like the russians firing an icbm at america and hitting toronto. Just because they didn't hit anything useful that means there not so bad?

 

[Smurf]

Well, facts say he's insane.

Ah, good we're getting somewhere. What facts?

 

[Pengwuino]

Ah, good we're getting somewhere. What facts?

Missiles. Launched. Japan. Insane. God that acid rain really screwed you people up.

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh Smurf... you are just too much.

I just talked to Zeus. You're fired. I'm sorry.

 

[loseyourname]

Yeah, it's called acid rain... you yanks are the ones putting it there.

When has that ever been a problem in BC? Don't your weather systems come down from the north Pacific?

 

[Anttech]

Pengwuino: If He is insain for lunching missiles towards Japan, what does that make eisenhower...

Also... why do you think everyone is a "liberal" We arent all Americans here!

 

[Yonoz]

Missiles. Launched. Japan. Insane. God that acid rain really screwed you people up.

You and smurf should do this way more often

 

[SOS2008]

No, sorry, as much as I'm sure you'd like to believe it, it is not fear mongering. He's a short little korean minime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong_Il is a decent start





If that doesn't convince you of his insanity, nothing will

That sounds like most dictators to me, but in particular Marcos in the Philippines. I'm sure his wife had way more shoes than Kim Jong Il. And the U.S, supported Marcos for almost 20 years. Ooooh scary!

 

[Gokul43201]

Smurf, if you are really interested in Kim Jong Il, read the following (in addition to the Wiki article).

Kim Jong Il dossier at Globalsecurity.org

Testimonies of NK Defectors - (1) , (2) , (3) , (4)

http://www.fas.org/news/dprk/1998/980906-dprk.htm

 

[TRCSF]

I think it's just a fear mongering meme.

Show me an analysis of some psychiatrist on what he thinks Kim Jong-Il's mental illness is, and why, and maybe I'll believe it.

 

[russ_watters]

I've heard many people on these forums claiming Il is crazy, a psychopath, or other such things. I havn't seen or heard any such reports about him having any such condition anywhere. How true is this? How much is just fear mongering?

Well since he's the dictator, he isn't going to go get himself diagnosed. I'll find some for you later (I'm having trouble cutting through the blogs), but psychologists do analyses of the mental health of leaders all the time. People on this site love citing that guy who wrote a book about Bush. I specifically remember seeing Hitler Stalin, Mao, and Il listed together with the word "sociopath". If you want to judge for yourself as a layman, this is the definition of sociopath (which isn't much different from "psychopath"):

"A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse."

Not caring that 10% of your population has starved to death in the past decade is pretty good evidence of antisocial behavior.

 

[TRCSF]

People on this site love citing that guy who wrote a book about Bush.

Yeah, what was that guy's conclusions? That he was highly dyslexic and suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome?

I think that was it.

 

[TRCSF]

Well, facts say he's insane. "it's not like he actually hit japan". My God. Thats like the russians firing an icbm at america and hitting toronto. Just because they didn't hit anything useful that means there not so bad?

And if you remember your geography, the alternative to firing your test missles "at" Japan is to fire your test missles "at" China. Only China isn't completely surrrounded by water, and would definitely hit something.

So it looks like firing missles "at" Japan is the less insane of two options.

Unless you want to have a military that doesn't test fire its own weapons. Which sounds pretty insane to me.

 

[russ_watters]

Here is one to look further into later. Gotta go for now... http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/56/6/761

 

[russ_watters]

That sounds like most dictators to me...

Not surprisingly, dictators tend to share a lot of psychological traits.

 

[TRCSF]

Not surprisingly, dictators tend to share a lot of psychological traits.

Wouldn't that indicate that their psychological traits are a result of their position, and not an actual mental illness?

 

[Smurf]

Not caring that 10% of your population has starved to death in the past decade is pretty good evidence of antisocial behavior.

I find this a fascinating statement by you Russ. 10% of Korea's population is about 2 million people. It's interesting that you consider their deaths the act of a sociopath but that 1.1 million people falling into poverty as a mere statistic, or miniscule. I think if killing people alone is enough to call a person a sociopath wouldn't a great deal of America's past presidents be just as bad?

This is not meant as an attack on the united states, merely pointing out an inconsistancy. I think you are appealing to emotions and not being objective enough about this.

 

[Townsend]

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm

 

[Smurf]

I havn't read any links yet. I will when I'm done with classes for the day. Got to go! Byeeee

 

[2CentsWorth]

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm

So for example:

Grandiose Sense of Self -
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality

And rumors that Bush is growing more hostile because of faltering support for the war, etc.:

“Who gives a flying **** what the polls say,” he screamed at a recent strategy meeting. “I’m the President and I’ll do whatever I goddamned please. They don’t know ****.”

This is from the article provide by Loren in GD, based on the book written by that guy (Dr. Frank). I'm sure some of this is exaggeration, but I'm sure some of it is not (for example his habit of flipping the bird).

So if Bush wasn't dyslexic, he would meet the other descriptions too. Now what about Kim Jong Il?

 

[stoned]

Not caring that 10% of your population has starved to death in the past decade is pretty good evidence of antisocial behavior.

illoustrious leader comrade GW. Bush does not give crap about its own people trapt in New Orlean flood waters, to me looks like he is psycho # 1

 

[Smurf]

Can we stop the bush bashing please. I actually would like to fully prove or debunk these claims about Jong-Il. Thank you.

 

[2CentsWorth]

Can we stop the bush bashing please. I actually would like to fully prove or debunk these claims about Jong-Il. Thank you.

You are correct that claims about Jong Il should be substantiated if these are going to be made and used as reasons for hostilities toward a country. It's just very hard to get around the kettle and pot thing in this forum.

 

[pattylou]

Congrats on mastering the "your/you're" grammatical challenge, Pengwuino! Woohoo!

Here are some more for you to work on. I provided the edits for you; you'll need to refer to the original to see the mistakes that needed correcting.

Well, facts say he's insane. "It's not like he actually hit Japan". My God. Thats like the Russians firing an ICBM at America and hitting Toronto. Just because they didn't hit anything useful, that means they're not so bad?

(The only proper noun you actually capitalized was the one that doesn't exist. I weep for the future.)

edit: Townsend's right about capitalising ICBM.

 

[SOS2008]

Congrats on mastering the "your/you're" grammatical challenge, Pengwuino! Woohoo!

Here are some more for you to work on. I provided the edits for you; you'll need to refer to the original to see the mistakes that needed correcting.(The only proper noun you actually capitalized was the one that doesn't exist. I weep for the future.)

I've encouraged him to use spell check, but without success. Well, at least he is a student interested in learning.

 

[Townsend]

Here are some more for you to work on. I provided the edits for you;

Wouldn't you capitalize the letters of 'icbm' also?

(My writing is horrible too. )

 

[TRCSF]

Wouldn't you capitalize the letters of 'icbm' also?

(My writing is horrible too. )

Yeah, but we've got to set realistic goals.

 

[pattylou]

Wouldn't you capitalize the letters of 'icbm' also?

(My writing is horrible too. )

I almost googled to find out, but settled for rationalising that intercontinental, ballistic, and missile can all begin with lower case.

Now I wish I had checked. Damn you, Townsend, damn you. Heheheh.

 

[Smurf]

STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD (and no, ICBM is all capitals)

 

[pattylou]

STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD (and no, ICBM is all capitals)

You're so cute when you yell.

I thought you were in class?

 

[TRCSF]

STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD (and no, ICBM is all capitals)

LOL, sorry Smurf. But I think it's going to be a long wait before anybody fully proves or debunks that Kim Jung-Il is suffering from a mental illness.

 

[Smurf]

You're so cute when you yell.

Excuse me? Are you implying I'm less cute when I don't yell? I'll have you know I'm smurfish-cute all year round thank you.

I thought you were in class?

That was like 7 hours ago.

 

[Gokul43201]

Patty (you blasphemer), you missed an apostrophe on "thats".

Now what were we talking about here ?

 

[Smurf]

Kim Jung-Il and his mental stability

 

[Art]

Here's a serious analysis of the N. Korean issue without the rather silly rhetoric usually employed, to demonise 'evil enemies', for general consumption.
http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/rowen.html

 

[SOS2008]

Here's a serious analysis of the N. Korean issue without the rather silly rhetoric usually employed, to demonise 'evil enemies', for general consumption.
http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/rowen.html

Kim Jong Il certainly is desperate, but not insane. Desperate can be almost as dangerous though. And it sounds like there are problems with inept administration of economic programs, perhaps due to appointments made based on loyalty rather than qualifications? He probably would have been overthrown long ago except he has been enabled, most of all by his neighbors who fear refugees flooding over the border, etc.--like the evolution toward nuclear capability has been better? In any event, the suggestions at the end seem better than a preemptive first strike.

 

[The_Professional]

That sounds like most dictators to me, but in particular Marcos in the Philippines. I'm sure his wife had way more shoes than Kim Jong Il. And the U.S, supported Marcos for almost 20 years. Ooooh scary!

It was stocked in the basement of their palace. Not to mention the huge gallons of perfumes with small faucets in their bedroom.

 

[Entropy]

Kim Jong-Il is just selfish, plain and simple. All he cares about is himself. He raises himself above all others and satisfies his own disires at the expense of others. I don't know if extreme egotism is a mental illness or not.

I doubt he is a sociopath. Being one would imply he suffers from antisocial behavior and he seems very charismatic, he must be to build up so many followers considering how goofy he looks.

I doubt he is a psycopath either. Psycopaths generally don't have a fear of consquences, which is why they aren't afraid of the social repercussions of perverted crimes. If he did suffer from this type of mental illness I believe his foreign politics would be far more aggressive than they are. From what I've heard, people who have met with him say he doesn't show aggressive behavior and actually acts very professional.

It is possible that he is delusional, but his behavior doesn't seem to be that irrational to say he is seeing or hearing things. Maybe delusional to the point that he thinks he is doing what is right for his people. But in my opinion I think he doesn't give a damn about his people. Creating weapons of mass destruction is just a way to make sure he holds on to his power. I doubt he is crazy enough to try and use them against another nation. I think he is sane enough to know that if he did we would wipe him out.

 

[russ_watters]

I find this a fascinating statement by you Russ. 10% of Korea's population is about 2 million people. It's interesting that you consider their deaths the act of a sociopath but that 1.1 million people falling into poverty as a mere statistic, or miniscule. I think if killing people alone is enough to call a person a sociopath wouldn't a great deal of America's past presidents be just as bad?

Who is hijacking the thread now? Do you really want answers to those...?

 

[SOS2008]

Kim Jong-Il is just selfish, plain and simple. All he cares about is himself. He raises himself above all others and satisfies his own disires at the expense of others. I don't know if extreme egotism is a mental illness or not.

I doubt he is a sociopath. Being one would imply he suffers from antisocial behavior and he seems very charismatic, he must be to build up so many followers considering how goofy he looks.

I doubt he is a psycopath either. Psycopaths generally don't have a fear of consquences, which is why they aren't afraid of the social repercussions of perverted crimes. If he did suffer from this type of mental illness I believe his foreign politics would be far more aggressive than they are. From what I've heard, people who have met with him say he doesn't show aggressive behavior and actually acts very professional.

It is possible that he is delusional, but his behavior doesn't seem to be that irrational to say he is seeing or hearing things. Maybe delusional to the point that he thinks he is doing what is right for his people. But in my opinion I think he doesn't give a damn about his people. Creating weapons of mass destruction is just a way to make sure he holds on to his power. I doubt he is crazy enough to try and use them against another nation. I think he is sane enough to know that if he did we would wipe him out.

Power corrupts. It happens everywhere all the time--even in the United States.