Is Obama fueling the Gate's incident?

[waht]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_harvard_scholar

The investigation of the incident is still on going but Obama said publicly that the police "acted stupidly," perhaps they did but anyone else thinks it is sort of premature to say so?

Also

"Obama said he could understand police responding in good faith if he was forcing his way into his old house in Chicago"

"Here I'd get shot," he joked.

Puts a dent on the Chicago police department

 

[mheslep]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_harvard_scholar

The investigation of the incident is still on going but Obama said publicly that the police "acted stupidly," perhaps they did but anyone else thinks it is sort of premature to say so?

Yes, to use the Office of the US President to attack the Cambridge police on national TV without further details was, I'll say, lame.

 

[gravenewworld]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on understanding racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

Talk about mixed messages.

 

[Pengwuino]

This is silly, when I broke into my neighbors house, the President didnt defend me one bit.

Wait did i just say that?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

"Obama said he could understand police responding in good faith if he was forcing his way into his old house in Chicago"

"Here I'd get shot," he joked.

Puts a dent on the Chicago police department

Try to at least get the most elementary information correct. He joked about being shot if he was breaking into his house at the White House. When he said "my house" he realized that is a bit different being that he is the President.

He is also personal friends with Gates, which he made clear. He went on to say:

"What we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latino being stopped by policy disproportionately."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25310.html#ixzz0M7VGkCSB

I would say it is more likely that the cops acted out a sense of superiority, than stupidly. They didn't like their authority being challenged. That is why he was arrested - he asked for their badge numbers - and that's why the charges were dropped.

 

[turbo]

The cop that arrested Gates is supposedly an expert in racial profiling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly;_ylt=Aq80jc3wsWx0MvX7FV12pd6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNmamU5OTRrBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNzIzL3VzX2hhcnZhcmRfc2Nob2xhcl9kaXNvcmRlcmx5BGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNwRwdANzZWN0aW9uc19jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2NvcHdob2FycmVzdA--

 

[russ_watters]

Is Obama fueling the Gate's incident?

The investigation of the incident is still on going but Obama said publicly that the police "acted stupidly," perhaps they did but anyone else thinks it is sort of premature to say so?

Well, I'd say he created his own incident! Perhaps he was premature in that he didn't know what the facts were, but the facts of the incident were clear enough by then to anyone who reads the news that Obama really "acted stupidly" here. He put his foot in his mouth and he should apologize to the cop.

As for the professor, I guess he's just another race baiter. Coming home from a long trip and finding you've locked yourself out of your house is frustrating to say the least, so I can accept his initial reaction to the police being called as a frustrated indescretion. But it's been a few days now - he should have had time to calm down and realize he was just plain wrong and the cop was right. And even the woman who called the police - she was right too! The only person involved in the incident who was wrong is Gates.

 

[gravenewworld]

1.) Gates was quite simply just a jerk. Just show the cop your DL politely and the situation is over in 2 minutes. No need to throw a hissy fit or be difficult.

2.) The cops screwed up by arresting him. People are allowed to be jerks on their own property. Disorderly conduct in a public space? WEAK. He was in his own house.
Gates was probably looking for a conflict when there didn't even need to be one. This incident is not important at all.

 

[russ_watters]

The cop that arrested Gates is supposedly an expert in racial profiling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly;_ylt=Aq80jc3wsWx0MvX7FV12pd6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNmamU5OTRrBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNzIzL3VzX2hhcnZhcmRfc2Nob2xhcl9kaXNvcmRlcmx5BGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNwRwdANzZWN0aW9uc19jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2NvcHdob2FycmVzdA--

Well that's just some real bad luck!

This is a perfect storm.

 

[chemisttree]

1.) Gates was quite simply just a jerk. Just show the cop your DL politely and the situation is over in 2 minutes. No need to throw a hissy fit or be difficult.

2.) The cops screwed up by arresting him. People are allowed to be jerks on their own property. Disorderly conduct in a public space? WEAK. He was in his own house.



Gates was probably looking for a conflict when there didn't even need to be one. This incident is not important at all.

Yelling at an officer WILL get you arrested. That is the definition of disorderly conduct. He was outside... not in his own house.

The http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police report on Gates arrest.PDF" is an interesting read.

Not weak at all...

 

[russ_watters]

2.) The cops screwed up by arresting him. People are allowed to be jerks on their own property. Disorderly conduct in a public space? WEAK. He was in his own house.

Actually, no, you are not allowed to be a jerk to the police anywhere. Even on your own property.

Gates was probably looking for a conflict when there didn't even need to be one. This incident is not important at all.

No, this incident is important because it is a great example of the principal racism problem in America today. From black scholars to the President himself, we live in a society where race baiting is at the forefront of black culture. The reason we are not "post racial" isn't the lingering fringe of white racism (which is real), it is because the black culture is hypersensitive to any perceived racism. Non-racist whites, in turn, are forced to tiptoe around the topic for fear of being so labeled.

But this incident went to about the furthest extreme possible and is so perfectly wrong it is going to serve as the archetypal example of the problem for a long time to come. Trust me on this one: people aren't going to let it go.

[edit] Remember you heard it here first: This will jeopardize Obama's re-election chances.

 

[russ_watters]

Yelling at an officer WILL get you arrested. That is the definition of disorderly conduct. He was outside... not in his own house.

While I am aware he was outside, I think it is important to note that that is irrelevant. Inside or outside, the crime is the same.

 

[turbo]

Reportedly, the officer who accosted Gates in his own home and on his own property refused to identify himself to Gates. It might be nice if our public servants actually followed procedure, even when it does not suit them.

 

[russ_watters]

Reportedly, the officer who accosted Gates in his own home and on his own property refused to identify himself to Gates. It might be nice if our public servants actually followed procedure, even when it does not suit them.

Have a read of the police report. Gates was not interested in his ID, only in berating him. He shouted over the cop when the cop tried to tell him his name - several times.

 

[turbo]

Have a read of the police report. Gates was not interested in his ID, only in berating him. He shouted over the cop when the cop tried to tell him his name - several times.

Did Gates have any input to the police report? Are police reports always honest and accurate? I would be VERY ticked off if the cops accosted me in my own home, and I doubt that the resultant police report would reflect well on me. I have a nephew in the state police, a relative who was (now retired) chief of police for the county seat, and a dear friend was (now retired) chief of the Maine warden service, and his son who is currently a warden. I have nothing against law-enforcement officials in general. The fact that a police officer arrested a black scholar in his own home in a nice neighborhood in Cambridge seems lost on you. The fact that the officer is an expert in racial profiling and refused to give his name and badge number to the professor after accosting him in his own home is past ironic.

 

[Evo]

I read that and it did sound like gates copped an attitude and was beligerant and caused all of the trouble. If he had co-operated with the police, it would have been over in a couple of minutes...no incident.

No sympathy from me on this one.

 

[berkeman]

Yelling at an officer WILL get you arrested. That is the definition of disorderly conduct. He was outside... not in his own house.

The http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police report on Gates arrest.PDF" is an interesting read.

Not weak at all...

Thanks for that. Very helpful. I'm pretty sure President Obama didn't have a chance to read that before making his comment.

 

[berkeman]

Are police reports always honest and accurate?

Don't know if they're always honest and accurate, but police can be fired for putting false information in the report, or omitting important information.

 

[j93]

I fully understand the police were investigating a call which really does give them the right to investigate

but

For Gods Sake the matter should of ended when he showed his identification without an arrest. Unless the house had no personal property in it whatsoever which is highly doubtful the only common sense investigation to be done is if there is the owner private property (pictures,documents, mailbox(You don't even have to enter the house most of the time). I have never heard of a burglar sending mail in his name to the property he is about to rob or put pictures of his house. Given that it should be pretty obvious who is the property owner based on the methods described coupled with his providing id. Now can someone explain to me how the police didnt botch this by not using common sense despite the professors attitude because you don't have to be a genius to know to use the common sense methods I have described instead of giving the professor the third degree.

 

[berkeman]

I fully understand the police were investigating a call which really does give them the right to investigate

but

For Gods Sake the matter should of ended when he showed his identification without an arrest. Unless the house had no personal property in it whatsoever which is highly doubtful the only common sense investigation to be done is if there is the owner private property (pictures,documents, mailbox(You don't even have to enter the house most of the time). I have never heard of a burglar sending mail in his name to the property he is about to rob or put pictures of his house. Given that it should be pretty obvious who is the property owner based on the methods described coupled with his providing id. Now can someone explain to me how the police didnt botch this by not using common sense despite the professors attitude because you don't have to be a genius to know to use the common sense methods I have described instead of giving the professor the third degree.

Did you read the police report?

 

[Office_Shredder]

For Gods Sake the matter should of ended when he showed his identification without an arrest. Unless the house had no personal property in it whatsoever which is highly doubtful the only common sense investigation to be done is if there is the owner private property (pictures,documents, mailbox(You don't even have to enter the house most of the time). I have never heard of a burglar sending mail in his name to the property he is about to rob or put pictures of his house. Given that it should be pretty obvious who is the property owner based on the methods described coupled with his providing id. Now can someone explain to me how the police didnt botch this by not using common sense despite the professors attitude because you don't have to be a genius to know to use the common sense methods I have described instead of giving the professor the third degree.

Yes, it should have ended when he showed his ID. He showed a Harvard ID badge, the cop radioed for Harvard police, and tried to leave. It should have ended there, but based on the police report Gates decided to prolong the confrontation

 

[turbo]

Yes, it should have ended when he showed his ID. He showed a Harvard ID badge, the cop radioed for Harvard police, and tried to leave. It should have ended there, but based on the police report Gates decided to prolong the confrontation

And why did the cop radio for the Harvard cops and not just drop the incident and leave? Gates was a professor in his own house being accosted by a Cambridge cop. Why should he have to explain himself to Harvard cops?

Have you ever been part of a demographic that is routinely harassed by unprofessional cops? In college, I had long hair and I played music to make money. I was accosted by a senior officer of the Orono police force one bitterly cold winter night, who told me to open my guitar case and show him the contents. (Just another hippie smuggling drugs, I guess.) I told him that if I opened the case without temperature-stabilizing it first, the finish would craze, ruining a guitar worth at least several hundred dollars. He threatened to take me to the station and make me open it there. I told him that he was welcome to do so, but searching me without probable cause wasn't going to look good for him. Yes, in 1970 in Maine, you could get shaken down just for having long hair. I kept my cool, but it was infuriating to have to defend myself from the prejudices of a hick because I didn't look like GI Joe.

 

[j93]

Did you read the police report?

Yes and still does not change the previous comment because
the reasons still apply ,once they knew there was not a burglary occurring they had no business at the house other than to help escalate the situation. The best part is the caller saying she had seen two black males with backpacks with one trying to wedge into break in. Not sure who this second man is maybe the driver maybe black maybe wearing a backpack. I also find it hard to believe the police report word by word especially given that the partner doesn't corroborate the partners report it is only 3 paragraphs compared to the 10+ on the other officers narrative but with that being said

still does not change the previous comment because
the reasons still apply, once they knew there was not a burglary occurring they had no business at the house other than to help escalate the situation.

 

[Cyrus]

Yes and still does not change the previous comment because
the reasons still apply ,once they knew there was not a burglary occurring they had no business at the house other than to help escalate the situation. The best part is the caller saying she had seen two black males with backpacks with one trying to wedge into break in. Not sure who this second man is maybe the driver maybe black maybe wearing a backpack. I also find it hard to believe the police report word by word especially given that the partner doesn't corroborate the partners report it is only 3 paragraphs compared to the 10+ on the other officers narrative but with that being said

still does not change the previous comment because
the reasons still apply, once they knew there was not a burglary occurring they had no business at the house other than to help escalate the situation.

Is the tab key on your keyboard malfunctioning?

You seem to have a lot of rage for someone not knowing any facts.

 

[mheslep]

The issue per the OP was the President's involvement with this incident. His involvement was wrong at several levels. Stating he did not know the details, the President castigated a local Police Dept, saying the officer 'acted stupidly'. Regardless of what actually happened, making that statement without the facts was wrong #1. Turns out now that the officer per the witnessed report acted appropriately, and Gates acted stupidly - wrong #2. In this country we have the principal of federalism, and absent some federal crime at hand such as evidence of systemic police abuse, he and all other federal officials should stay out of it. Granted Gates was a friend so one would expect to him to say something, but not as he did in that venue - wrong #3. The President coupled a lot of racial baggage into the story, though with his usual aplomb he managed to not really accuse anybody of anything. We don't need any more shoot from the hip racial accusations, especially not from that podium - wrong #4. Finally, from his point of view, he needs all eyes concentrated on his health plan, and this is certainly a distraction, one that's bound to last at least a several days.

 

[Cyrus]

And why did the cop radio for the Harvard cops and not just drop the incident and leave? Gates was a professor in his own house being accosted by a Cambridge cop. Why should he have to explain himself to Harvard cops?

Have you ever been part of a demographic that is routinely harassed by unprofessional cops? In college, I had long hair and I played music to make money. I was accosted by a senior officer of the Orono police force one bitterly cold winter night, who told me to open my guitar case and show him the contents. (Just another hippie smuggling drugs, I guess.) I told him that if I opened the case without temperature-stabilizing it first, the finish would craze, ruining a guitar worth at least several hundred dollars. He threatened to take me to the station and make me open it there. I told him that he was welcome to do so, but searching me without probable cause wasn't going to look good for him. Yes, in 1970 in Maine, you could get shaken down just for having long hair. I kept my cool, but it was infuriating to have to defend myself from the prejudices of a hick because I didn't look like GI Joe.

Turbo, you have in poker what we call a 'tell'. It's a sign that gives away someone is bluffing. Your "tell" is using irrelevant stories to try and support your unsubstantiated statements.

 

[j93]

Yes, it should have ended when he showed his ID. He showed a Harvard ID badge, the cop radioed for Harvard police, and tried to leave. It should have ended there, but based on the police report Gates decided to prolong the confrontation

As stated in the previous post I read the police report too and there was no mention of physical threat by Gates nor a threat to police property no mention of anything of calling the police racist. Even police in Philly or anywhere can possibly go around arresting every single individual for disorderly conduct for making pig noises its petty and not practical.

 

[j93]

Is the tab key on your keyboard malfunctioning?

You seem to have a lot of rage for someone not knowing any facts.

As opposed to your facts. Given you hold so many facts you should go to the Cambridge Police Station and file a testimony in support of Officer Crowley.

 

[Evo]

The issue per the OP was the President's involvement with this incident. His involvement was wrong at several levels. Stating he did not know the details, the President castigated a local Police Dept, saying the officer 'acted stupidly'. Regardless of what actually happened, making that statement without the facts was wrong #1. Turns out now that the officer per the witnessed report acted appropriately, and Gates acted stupidly - wrong #2. In this country we have the principal of federalism, and absent some federal crime at hand such as evidence of systemic police abuse, he and all other federal officials should stay out of it. Granted Gates was a friend so one would expect to him to say something, but not as he did in that venue - wrong #3. The President coupled a lot of racial baggage into the story, though with his usual aplomb he managed to not really accuse anybody of anything. We don't need any more shoot from the hip racial accusations, especially not from that podium - wrong #4. Finally, from his point of view, he needs all eyes concentrated on his health plan, and this is certainly a distraction, one that's bound to last at least a several days.

All very good points. Obama messed this one up. I'm very disappointed. Yes, he's only human and defended his friend without knowing the facts, but not ok considering he's the President and that he made a statement. Wrong.

Back to the incident, Gates went after the cops as they tried to leave to continue his harrassment of them and it was at that point that they did what they rightly should do.

Gates looks like a pompous, arrogant fool.

 

[j93]

Regardless of what actually happened, making that statement without the facts was wrong #1. Turns out now that the officer per the witnessed report acted appropriately, and Gates acted stupidly -.

The witnessed report was written by Officer Crowley and Figueroa his partner. Did you believe it would have Crowley report something unfavorable for him?

 

[waht]

Ok, Obama changed his mind:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer

Obama stepped back on Thursday, telling ABC News, "From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably that it would have been better if cooler heads had prevailed.

 

[j93]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

police report

 

[Cyrus]

The witnessed report was written by Officer Crowley and Figueroa his partner. Did you believe it would have Crowley report something unfavorable for him?

If you're going to accuse a police office of professional misconduct, I hope you have something substantial to back your claim. Right now, you're talking too much. Aparantly, its become acceptable around here for everyone to post whatever nonsense they want with nothing to support what they said. This is quite appalling.

 

[mheslep]

And why did the cop radio for the Harvard cops and not just drop the incident and leave?

1. That house had a burglary call on it previously and recently, 2. Sounds like SOP to me.

Gates was a professor in his own house being accosted by a Cambridge cop.

1. The cop didn't know it was his house, Harvard ID didn't clarify that, 2. He did not initially accost him.

Why should he have to explain himself to Harvard cops?

I have some sympathy for that point of view, but it is myopic. Look at it also from a cops point of view. They're answering a burglary call, a confused situation, not knowing who's made the call, going through a door not knowing who's on the other side. They are the guys who have to walk through that door, and they can't do it guns blazing.

This doesn't give the police any special privilege to abuse people, but I believe in part because they walk through the door, they take that risk, cops generally won't tolerate much abuse coming in their direction from anybody on the scene. Get a badge and file a complaint later if they're over the line. But you do not mouth off to the cop on the scene no matter who the hell you are, period. Doing so is a ticket to jail or maybe even getting your butt kicked, for anybody.

 

[Cyrus]

All very good points. Obama messed this one up. I'm very disappointed. Yes, he's only human and defended his friend without knowing the facts, but not ok considering he's the President and that he made a statement. Wrong.

Back to the incident, Gates went after the cops as they tried to leave to continue his harrassment of them and it was at that point that they did what they rightly should do.

Gates looks like a pompous, arrogant fool.

That's because he's acting like a pompus, arrogant fool.