News Is Obama fueling the Gate's incident?

[turbo]

And you know the cop did not act as an adult how?

Check the news. Taking a Harvard professor out of his own house in handcuffs? Come on. Even you should be able to see how ridiculous that is. As far as I know, when you are being harassed in the US (by a private citizen or a public official) it is not a crime to raise a ruckus. What happened to personal freedoms?

 

[Cyrus]

This is true but any logical person would assume what happened it lies in Officer Crowley's account or Gates' account or more likely somewhere in between.

Gates word doesn't mean a thing against that of a police officers in a court of law.

 

[turbo]

Again, turbo, read the report. The Harvard cops were called for the professor's benefit, not for the cop's. The Harvard ID didn't have his address on it and the cop called them both to help verify it was his house and because Gates would rather deal with them than the city cop.

I read the report. Calling the Harvard police was a further imposition on Professor Gates. The Cambridge cops already knew who he was. Certainly, the Harvard cops already knew who he was.

 

[Cyrus]

Check the news. Taking a Harvard professor out of his own house in handcuffs? Come on. Even you should be able to see how ridiculous that is. As far as I know, when you are being harassed in the US (by a private citizen or a public official) it is not a crime to raise a ruckus. What happened to personal freedoms?

Sorry they didn't have the gold plated Rolls Royce for him.

The problem is your statement "as far as I know", falls short of reality. I look white, and even I don't mouth off to cops.

 

[russ_watters]

As stated in the previous post I read the police report too and there was no mention of physical threat by Gates nor a threat to police property no mention of anything of calling the police racist.

Read it again, this time focusing on lines 6-8 on page 2, where the cop quotes one accusation of racism directly and refers to several others without quoting them.

 

[j93]

What you missed in the police report is where it says that the Harvard ID didn't have his address on it. So it was not helpful in determining it wasn't a burglary. The cop says he believed that Gates was the owner of his house, but it was his job to actually verify it.

Didnt miss that, much of the rest of the post discussed common sense methods to determine occupancy like having photos of around, or maybe seeing a document with name on the harvard ID or asking for a piece of mail.

 

[russ_watters]

Check the mail (ask for mail) combined with Harvard ID. Robert Gates is receiving mail at this address.

Wouldn't a driver's license be just as good as asking for the mail...and more in line with standard operating procedure?

 

[Cyrus]

Didnt miss that, much of the rest of the post discussed common sense methods to determine occupancy like having photos of around, or maybe seeing a document with name on the harvard ID or asking for a piece of mail.

Why does that matter, considering that's not the reason why he was arrested?

 

[j93]

Read it again, this time focusing on lines 6-8 on page 2, where the cop quotes one accusation of racism directly and refers to several others without quoting them.

oops I meant "other than" in that quote you posted that why I then continued to mention why the police don't go around arresting people for making pig noises because it would be petty and impractical and would only fit under disorderly conduct , too many resources used not worth the paperwork.

 

[j93]

Why does that matter, considering that's not the reason why he was arrested?

Not sure why I am responding but that was obviously in response to russ watters comment on ID not having the address.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm recalling the recent back flip rationalizations used by Judge Sotomayor to distance herself from the 'wise Latina' comments, and everyone happy to give her the benefit of the doubt: 'slow down, slow down, look at her record.' Then I reread this transcript, see the condemnation of a cop and immediate connection to racism by the President. Now I'm angry.

Dam right it does, thanks in no small part to you.

I was meaning to bring that up for discussion in that thread about her... strangely that thread died when the confirmation hearings began. She looked really bad in them. Yeah, this is more of what Obama is all about. The reason I said this would affect him in 3 years is that in his last election, he was successfuly able to argue that he didn't buy into Pastor's beliefs by flip-flopping on his longtime friend and mentor and rejecting him. Far fetched to say the least, but it worked. Here, he has no such out: this time, it is his own words that will be on the Republican commercials.

 

[j93]

Wouldn't a driver's license be just as good as asking for the mail...and more in line with standard operating procedure?

Another option as well ,but putting little things together that don't invlve more queries would help speed things along and aid in moving on to the next call.

 

[russ_watters]

What is wrong with police acting as adults

This cop acted perfectly professionally.

...backing down when there is no apparent threat...

He did!

...and apologizing for disrupting the life of an ordinary citizen when they have acted appropriatley to what turned out to be a mistaken report?

Sorry, but being an arrogant *** makes Gates unworthy of an apology. If Gates had acted like an adult, he would have been treated like one. Instead, he was treated with a level of respect somewhat lower, but still far greater than he deserved.

I have a biker-buddy who was the head of training for the Mass State Police, and he would have been all over that Cambridge cop for escalating what should have been a routine check-in, check-out call.

There is nothign in that report that implies escalation by the cop. The cop's first response was bewilderment at Gate's irate reaction. He did all he could to defuse the situation.

 

[russ_watters]

This is true but any logical person would assume what happened it lies in Officer Crowley's account or Gates' account or more likely somewhere in between.

I am more likely to believe the person who was rational during the incident.

Odds are, we'll get some more evidence on this anyway, as the officer was talking on the radio and there were a bunch of witnesses. We'll see - but try to be logical about where you place your bet.

 

[russ_watters]

I read the report. Calling the Harvard police was a further imposition on Professor Gates. The Cambridge cops already knew who he was.

The Cambridge cops did not know that it was his house because he did not (until later) provide an ID with an address.

Certainly, the Harvard cops already knew who he was.

Exactly - that's why it was to Gates benefit to call them!

 

[turbo]

This cop acted perfectly professionally. He did! Sorry, but being an arrogant *** makes Gates unworthy of an apology. If Gates had acted like an adult, he would have been treated like one. Instead, he was treated with a level of respect somewhat lower, but still far greater than he deserved.
There is nothign in that report that implies escalation by the cop. The cop's first response was bewilderment at Gate's irate reaction. He did all he could to defuse the situation.

If you take all the cop's reports at face-value and totally discount Gate's account, you could conceivably come to this conclusion. I'm not so gullible. I have been treated like a second-class citizen and been shaken down by cops before based solely on my appearance. If you think that the cop's description of the incident is 100% accurate and 100% favorable to him, you might need a reality check. Police-work can be touchy, and cops have been known to pad their reports to protect themselves from legal action. Or maybe you didn't know that...

 

[russ_watters]

Another option as well ,but putting little things together that don't invlve more queries would help speed things along and aid in moving on to the next call.

What? What do you mean "more queries"? How is asking for a driver's license "more queries" than asking to see his mail? Each is one! And keep in mind, the only reason the officer needed a second form of ID is that Gates provided an insufficient one in the first query.

 

[russ_watters]

If you take all the cop's reports at face-value and totally discount Gate's account, you could conceivably come to this conclusion. I'm not so gullible...

Personally, I think someone who takes at face value the word of someone who they acknowledge acted improperly is being gullible. But that's just me. Put another way, the only reason (besides your clear, strong personal bias) that you don't believe the cop is the word of someone who you acknowledge acted improperly.

...oh, and while we're at it: where can I read Gates' full report on the incident? By reading his full account, we can see if it is self-consistent and see exactly how it differs from the officer's.

 

[turbo]

BTW, when I was shaken-down by the Orono cop in 1970, I had a driver's license, a UMO ID, a campus meal-program card, and other stuff that was pretty solid evidence that I was a student (engineering track at the time) and still that jerk was intent on shaking me down with NO evidence or probable cause.

I hadn't done anything wrong or suspicious, but I was guilty of having long hair late at night with a suspicious guitar case in my hand while I was freezing my fri**ing butt off trying to get home.

 

[russ_watters]

...oh, and while we're at it: where can I read Gates' full report on the incident? By reading his full account, we can see if it is self-consistent and see exactly how it differs from the officer's.

...Oh, wait, that's right: no such thing exists!

Here's a CNN report that contains snippets of a statement by Gates' lawer. If you listen carefully, you'll notice they don't disagree with the officer's account at all. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

 

[Cyrus]

BTW, when I was shaken-down by the Orono cop in 1970, I had a driver's license, a UMO ID, a campus meal-program card, and other stuff that was pretty solid evidence that I was a student (engineering track at the time) and still that jerk was intent on shaking me down with NO evidence or probable cause.

I hadn't done anything wrong or suspicious, but I was guilty of having long hair late at night with a suspicious guitar case in my hand while I was freezing my fri**ing butt off trying to get home.

Relevant, why?

Side: Back in summer of 69' my friends were cruizin in the old el camino when we saw this guy on the side of the road. We offered him a ride and then bla bla bla bla bla ...good god turbo. These meaningless stories never end. The next one will be about how you made a living singing in your local bar.

Gates isn't some long haired hippie with a guitar case living in a small country town. Those were not small country side cops. He doesn't live in a ghetto.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Nope not a fact, read the report it is basically one long detailed account and a short gloss of events by the other officer.

The second officer's report is what is called a 'supplemental report'. He was not the officer in charge of the situation and so his report required nothing more than for him to discribe what he personally observed of the incident. The contents of his report then is apparently all he personally observed.

Also, writing falsing information in a police or witness report is not only agianst department rules it is against the law and you can go to jail for it. If the police report is at all accurate then there are several witnesses to what occurred outside of the residence (which is what he was arrested for) and any falsification could easily be found out and the officer would lose his job at a minimum.


I've personally been on both sides of this sort of situation. I've dealt with jerk cops that want to give you a hard time and find reasons to get you in trouble and I have been the guy getting yelled at and called a racist for nothing more than doing my job.

Just a few weeks ago I found an apartment door busted in and a man inside the apartment. This intoxicated parolee I found inside someone elses apartment with a busted in door was nicer, more polite, and had more sense than a Harvard Professor in his own home apparently.

Wether or not the man really should have been arrested is a hard call for not having been there. From what I have read I would mostly side with the officer.

 

[Cyrus]

...Oh, wait, that's right: no such thing exists!

Here's a CNN report that contains snippets of a statement by Gates' lawer. If you listen carefully, you'll notice they don't disagree with the officer's account at all. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Russ, just give them warnings to post using facts and sources. It will save you and me a lot of headache dealing with them.

 

[russ_watters]

So I was wrong, we do have at least a little to go on from Gates: Here's a statement by Gate's lawyer and an interview Gates did: http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks

Now the thing that stands out the most of about Gate's account is that it is much thinner than the officer's. It doesn't specifically disagree with what the officer said because much of what is in the police report could simply fit in the holes in Gates' account. But both Gates' and the lawyers' accounts reads like a sanitized version of what he seems to understand was a moment of anger for him. In particular, the lawyer's account makes it sound like they were having a near-friendly chat at the end of the encounter, and then he was suddenly arrested! Obviously, that can be explored by talking to the witnesses. I'm wondering if there is any recourse against Gates if it can be proven he is making false statements about the incident.

One key difference is that the officer says he was present when the phone call to Harvard was made. Gates implies he made the call before the officer arrived. That should be easy to verify, but in any case, it isn't that important.

 

[waht]

...Oh, wait, that's right: no such thing exists!

Here's a CNN report that contains snippets of a statement by Gates' lawer. If you listen carefully, you'll notice they don't disagree with the officer's account at all. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Interestingly, why does CNN title this "The 'unfathomable' arrest of a black scholar"

 

[Cyrus]

Interestingly, why does CNN title this "The 'unfathomable' arrest of a black scholar"

Are you kidding me? CNN is a joke. They care more about playing with their touchscreen montiors than getting the news right.

 

[waht]

Are you kidding me? CNN is a joke. They care more about playing with their touchscreen montiors than getting the news right.

yea and 3D holograms

 

[Cyrus]

yea and 3D holograms

Do they have holograms now too? Every time I watch CNN, I'm like "stop playing with the damn touch screens and just report the news!"

It's to the point where they just show off their glitzy and glamorous flat screens, and report highly speculative stories. It's a step above tabloids.

 

[waht]

The CNN holoroom

It's to the point where they just show off their glitzy and glamorous flat screens, and report highly speculative stories. It's a step above tabloids.

agreed

 

[Evo]

Check the news. Taking a Harvard professor out of his own house in handcuffs? Come on. Even you should be able to see how ridiculous that is. As far as I know, when you are being harassed in the US (by a private citizen or a public official) it is not a crime to raise a ruckus. What happened to personal freedoms?

He left his house and came after the police. Do you see how ridiculous he was? Not to mention that what he did was reason to arrest him. He was harrassing the police. Seriously turbo, read the report and stop making stuff up.