Is System Stability of LTI System Proven?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the stability of a linear time-invariant (LTI) system defined by the equation y(t) = d/dt x(t). Participants explore the criteria for stability, particularly focusing on the impulse response and its implications for bounded input and output behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof attempting to show that the system is not stable based on the impulse response h(t) = δ'(t) and the criterion ∫|h(t)| dt < ∞.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial assessment, stating that since ∫|δ'(t)| dt = ∞, the system is not stable.
  • A different participant argues that if the input x(t) is bounded, then y(t) remains bounded as t approaches infinity, suggesting stability.
  • Another participant challenges this view, asserting that discontinuities in the input signal could lead to an infinite output, indicating instability, and expresses difficulty in providing a rigorous proof for this intuition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the stability of the system. While some argue that the system is unstable based on the impulse response, others propose that bounded inputs could lead to bounded outputs, suggesting stability. The discussion remains unresolved with competing views on the implications of input characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their proofs and reasoning, particularly regarding the treatment of discontinuities in input signals and the implications for output behavior. There is an acknowledgment of the need for a more rigorous approach to support intuitive claims.

the_amateur
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Is the following system stable. If so how.

y(t)= [itex]\frac{d}{dt}[/itex] x(t)I have tried the following proof but i think it is wrong.

PROOF:

  1. The System is LINEAR
  2. The system is time invariant

So on applying the stability criterion for LTI systems

ie . [itex]\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} h(t) dt[/itex] < [itex]\infty[/itex] --------- 1 For the above system h(t) = [itex]\delta^{'}(t)[/itex]

so on applying h(t) = [itex]\delta^{'}(t)[/itex] in eq. 1
[itex]\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} \delta^{'}(t) dt[/itex] = [itex]\delta(0)[/itex]

So the system is not stable.
I think the above proof is way off the mark.
please provide the correct proof. thanks
 
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The system (BIBO) stable if the impulse response is absolutely integrable, that is,

[itex]\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} |h(t)| dt < \infty[/itex]

For the differentiator, we have (as you have found in your question)

[itex]h(t) = \delta (t)'[/itex].

Since

[itex]\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} | \delta (t)' | dt= \infty[/itex],

the system is not stable.The system is LTI as

[itex]\frac{d}{dt} (a_1x_1(t) + a_1x_1(t)) = a_1 \frac{d}{dt} x_1(t) + a_2 \frac{d}{dt} x_2(t) = a_1y_1(t) + a_2y_2(t)[/itex]

and

[itex]\frac{d}{dt} x(t-\tau) = y(t-\tau)[/itex].
 
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Thanks for your reply but i am trying to find if it is stable or not. i think my derivation is wrong.
 
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here let x(t) be input that is bounded. As you let t-> inifinity, y(t) remains real and bounded, therefore the system is Stable.

if we had y(t) = tx(t), then if t->infinity x(t) is still bounded, but it is being multiplied by a factor of infinity so your output y(t) -> infinity therefore is unstable.
 
@Larrytsai

you mentioned the following

Larrytsai said:
here let x(t) be input that is bounded. As you let t-> inifinity, y(t) remains real and bounded, therefore the system is Stable.

if we had y(t) = tx(t), then if t->infinity x(t) is still bounded, but it is being multiplied by a factor of infinity so your output y(t) -> infinity therefore is unstable.

where x(t) can be any input signal. You say that in the system that i have posted the system is stable since x(t) is stable but i find by intuition that this is not the case if the input signal has discontinuities. At the point of discontinuity the output would then be a DIRAC delta [itex]\delta(t)[/itex] whose value is infinite at t = 0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_delta_function" ). So by intuition the system is not stable.

The problem is I am unable to provide a rigorous proof to back my intuition. I believe my proof is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated. thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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