Is the Dream State Our Afterlife?

[Odin]

Devision

Originally posted by Messiah
1) In order to experience you must exist.
2) You can only 'be' one existence. Multiple existences have multiple identities (duh).
3) Your body is billions of existences.
'Nuff said?

A person is infinitely devisable, by length, hieght and depth. So how can we tell which existence is us? which is PURELY us? Or are we infinite beings? Can either be true at all?

I say that we exist on a different plain. A fourth dimension if you will, and these bodies only puppets in a bigger picture.

Theorise all you want on what is true and untrue about the afterlife but we know as much about it as we do the existence "god(s)". And my reasonings may be out there but they are as plausable as Christianity itself.

 

[einsof]

Nirvana

well if you think about it,
we will not be bound to our mortality any more and rest does make sence.
You are and your not.
thats the paradox that we can't comprehend because we think with matter and not the etheral.
My personal belifes are still unsorted.
I have to go back to the theroy of Electricity.
It dosent extinguish it becomes something else...
So maybe we are electric

 

[Deeviant]

Originally posted by einsof
well if you think about it,
we will not be bound to our mortality any more and rest does make sence.
You are and your not.
thats the paradox that we can't comprehend because we think with matter and not the etheral.
My personal belifes are still unsorted.
I have to go back to the theroy of Electricity.
It dosent extinguish it becomes something else...
So maybe we are electric

I think you would be more correct saying "you are or your not"

 

[Messiah]

Originally posted by Odin
A person is infinitely devisable, by length, hieght and depth. So how can we tell which existence is us? which is PURELY us? Or are we infinite beings? Can either be true at all?

TWO things in a composite are held together by electro-magnetic bonds. To separate them only requires the force of the bond be overcome by the device used to cleave it. In order to separate part of a SINGLE entity from itself would require some point within its structure to cease to exist. Change is a function of existence. Before something could cease to exist it would lose its ability to change or be changed. Entities - unique beings comprised only of themselves - cannot be wrent asunder.

I say that we exist on a different plain (plane?). A fourth dimension if you will, and these bodies only puppets in a bigger picture.

An XYZ axis represents three dimensions. There are an infinite number of dimensions within the realm of the polar coordinates which may be derived from these. There are in infinite number of planes and all exist in the real world - else they would not exist.

Theorise all you want on what is true and untrue about the afterlife but we know as much about it as we do the existence "god(s)". And my reasonings may be out there but they are as plausable as Christianity itself.

What about the beforelife - and before that. Do you really think you were 'created' when you were born? Existence is eternal - being itself. Life is transient - a state of being.

 

[Odin]

Originally posted by Messiah
TWO things in a composite are held together by electro-magnetic bonds. To separate them only requires the force of the bond be overcome by the device used to cleave it. In order to separate part of a SINGLE entity from itself would require some point within its structure to cease to exist. Change is a function of existence. Before something could cease to exist it would lose its ability to change or be changed. Entities - unique beings comprised only of themselves - cannot be wrent asunder.

An XYZ axis represents three dimensions. There are an infinite number of dimensions within the realm of the polar coordinates which may be derived from these. There are in infinite number of planes and all exist in the real world - else they would not exist.

What about the beforelife - and before that. Do you really think you were 'created' when you were born? Existence is eternal - being itself. Life is transient - a state of being. [/B]

If you cut off your finger (if you can't chose your least favorite one go for the other one, no the OTHER one) which part would you be? the finger? or the Person missing a finger or two? My Point is WHERE do we get to the point of us being in the matter? Are you your brain, heart, kidneys or liver? If any of these in which atom are you? Then to be more specific, Devide the atom which is solely your essence until there is nothing but you. GET THE POINT!
What I've been trying to say is at which point do we truly exist in our own bodies? Being that matter will always be divisble to our understanding and even to an infinite level.
E.G. 1.77154417724648713514841354413151846161613214544
we can keep going if you want. When do we stop being our bodies and START being us? When? If you can tell me that with a straight even proof to back it up then I will remove myself from my body.

As for the creationism speach, where you find the beginning you will find the end. Simply meaning that if you find the start of time there I will have been created but if there was no beginning? WHEN was i created? AND where will I be destroyed? IF you don't think that I was created when CONCIEVED. Birth is just the release of you from your mothers womb (if you came from one )
And no I am quite ANTI-Christian

 

[einsof]

Sometimes we can pick things apart to much.
If the heart of man is the souls seat, I guess you can start there.

 

[Canute]

Originally posted by Messiah
Space physicaly exists - else there would be NOTHING between us and the sun and it would get awful hot :)

If space is physical then it has extension. All physical things have extension by definition.

The soul is likely more etherial than material in nature.

I don't like the term 'soul'. However if you mean consciousness then I agree with you.

Inside you. Why can't you 'see' space?

If a thing cannot be observed or infered in principle then it cannot be physical. I agree that reality lies inside us, but it makes no sense to say it is physical. This is the reason science cannot do metaphysics.

Why would you assume thought should have the property of mass?

I don't. But if they are physical then they do.

The brain is just a lump of sophisticated mud - the being which wears it does the thinking.

Sort of agree.

Guess I'm a nobody.. .

If you can prove consciousness is physical you are not a nobody, or at least you won't be for very long.

Please cite the evidence.

That's unfair, the proof is all over the literature. Try Chalmer's site for papers on this.

 

[Canute]

Originally posted by Zero
"Pain", for instance, can be measured as a biological response. There's no mystery to it, only a matter of engineering proper measuring devices. There is no magical "otherness" to pain, no need to try to explain it that way. Physical injury causes a series of physical effects; we label those effects "pain". Why should there have to be anything else to it?

It is impossible to measure pain with an instrument in principle. All we can do is ask a subject how the pain seems to them.

 

[Messiah]

Originally posted by Odin
If you cut off your finger (if you can't chose your least favorite one go for the other one, no the OTHER one) which part would you be? the finger? or the Person missing a finger or two?

Neither. Your body is something you wear, not what you are.

My Point is WHERE do we get to the point of us being in the matter? Are you your brain, heart, kidneys or liver? If any of these in which atom are you? Then to be more specific, Devide the atom which is solely your essence until there is nothing but you. GET THE POINT!
What I've been trying to say is at which point do we truly exist in our own bodies? Being that matter will always be divisble to our understanding and even to an infinite level.
E.G. 1.77154417724648713514841354413151846161613214544
we can keep going if you want. When do we stop being our bodies and START being us? When? If you can tell me that with a straight even proof to back it up then I will remove myself from my body.

If you think the only form of existence is material, you must not believe in space. You are wearing a mud pack genetically engineered over eons of evolution. It is a tool. Without it, it would be difficult to drive a car or go bowling. Eventually you will wear it out and it will fall off of its own accord - that's OK, though, 'cause there wouldn't BE any evolution if that didn't happen.
((Now do we get to see you truly NAKED))

As for the creationism speach, where you find the beginning you will find the end. Simply meaning that if you find the start of time there I will have been created but if there was no beginning? WHEN was i created? AND where will I be destroyed? IF you don't think that I was created when CONCIEVED. Birth is just the release of you from your mothers womb (if you came from one )
And no I am quite ANTI-Christian

Existence is not the product of cause and effect. There was no creation. The phenomenon of existence is explained by a principle, not a process - sic the balance of nature

 

[phoenixthoth]

man, it's like we've opened a can of worms by seeking knowledge...

 

[Odin]

Originally posted by Messiah
Neither. Your body is something you wear, not what you are.
If you think the only form of existence is material, you must not believe in space. You are wearing a mud pack genetically engineered over eons of evolution. It is a tool. [/B]

Thankyou, I stated that fact ages ago. I only posted my last few posts to get you to agree with me and I thank you for doing so.

 

[phoenixthoth]

dear odin,
existence is NOT futile! but then again, It Is. because you are eternal, it is impossible to resist existence, odin.

 

[Odin]

Mrrrr

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
dear odin,
existence is NOT futile! but then again, It Is. because you are eternal, it is impossible to resist existence, odin.

Tis just a play on the phrase "Resistance is futile". But you just had to ruin it didn't you! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!?

 

[phoenixthoth]

i know that resistance is futile, in certain situations.

 

[Messiah]

Originally posted by Odin
Thankyou, I stated that fact ages ago. I only posted my last few posts to get you to agree with me and I thank you for doing so.

OK...OK...NOW I remember you.
Weren't you the one who said the Big Bang wouldn't last over an eon?

 

[phoenixthoth]

ROFL!

 

[Deeviant]

Ageless and infinite existence has no meaning.

There is no right without wrong,
There is no light without dark,
There is no life without death.

 

[phoenixthoth]

maybe.

 

[Odin]

Originally posted by Messiah
OK...OK...NOW I remember you.
Weren't you the one who said the Big Bang wouldn't last over an eon?

Uh Not that I can remember, I don't remember stateing that but it sounds like me so I'm going to go with "your thinkin' of someone else".

 

[Messiah]

Originally posted by Odin
Uh Not that I can remember, I don't remember stateing that but it sounds like me so I'm going to go with "your thinkin' of someone else".

No - it was DEFINITELY you. Remember . . . we were all silicon based beings swimming in an atmosphere of methane and hydrogen - It used to bleach our claws purple . . .

 

[Odin]

Originally posted by Messiah
No - it was DEFINITELY you. Remember . . . we were all silicon based beings swimming in an atmosphere of methane and hydrogen - It used to bleach our claws purple . . .

Hold on you survived!? How?? Why?? And you are definitely color-blind, it bleached our claws a pale shade of black. And here I was thinking that you were dead. Ok, so give me your address and I'll hunt you down. Don't worry I can wait all day; I still have to polish the guns...

 

[Messiah]

Originally posted by Odin
Hold on you survived!? How?? Why?? And you are definitely color-blind, it bleached our claws a pale shade of black. And here I was thinking that you were dead. Ok, so give me your address and I'll hunt you down. Don't worry I can wait all day; I still have to polish the guns...

I was dead - I've been dead 12.6^38 times since then - and it gets to be more fun each time.

I'm now on the third planet from sol - close to the equator. Look me up and we'll have an old fashioned duel - like in the old days with the coglac's before their three suns blew apart. It's hard to find pargon chips on this ball of dirt, though.

 

[Odin]

Originally posted by Messiah
I was dead - I've been dead 12.6^38 times since then - and it gets to be more fun each time.

I'm now on the third planet from sol - close to the equator. Look me up and we'll have an old fashioned duel - like in the old days with the coglac's before their three suns blew apart. It's hard to find pargon chips on this ball of dirt, though.

tell me about it I've been blown up about 500 times so far and half of them I've survived. they're real fun! A duel sounds great hows about three weapons of users choise each. first to kill the other 300 times wins. ok?

 

[Overdose]

well we can't "prove" anything after death, scientically.

distilling all the material that i have read the best explanation i can offer is that you will initially experience what you expected.

e.g. if you were a devout christian, loved your mother, and believed in heaven; you would be met by your mother and led thru the experience. i suspect that the terrorists that expected virgins were met by virgins and led into something other than a sexual experience.

these personalities would arrive after the 'whitelight' thingy. i sat with my mother as she passed. she went out having a conversation with her mother during the last 10-15 minutes. that was 37 years ago and really made and impression.

i have put in a conscious request to be met by Elvis but i do not think we are psychically connected.

peace,

I think you are very probably right, i think the inital experience when you die is a culturally biased limbo state that eases you into the final stage of death. Some would say that beyond this bardo state there is nothing atall although others have claimed to have gone pasted this threashold and experienced a reality beyond words.

 

[rgoudie]

Why does taking a very physical drug effect your consciousness if physical matter had nothing to do with your consciousness.

Perhaps the brain is used as an interface by consciousness.

-Ray.

 

[tph666]

Why worry about death.Its going to happen no matter what,born to die.So live your life the way you see fit ,if we get judged by anyone it will be you as the judge.Live your life,you can't lie to yourself but you can judge yourself

 

[Iacchus32]

I died and gave birth to myself, so yes, there is life after death.

 

[magus niche]

not something to dwell on...


obviously no such thing as physical death, simply matter in constant cycle of transfer.

question of consciousness living on?

what you believe (linked to knowledge) will happen.

peace

 

[Harveyf]

Ah; so this is where the magus hangs out. Greetings all. Death...soon enough. When I was a bit younger than my almost seventy summers, I read an article regarding the new electron microscope, and its ability to enlarge an image as tiny as the area in our brains which produces the electrical energy required to initiate the dream state. It appeared to be similar to an underground cable leading to a pillbox atop a hill in a surreal landscape. I thought, at the time, that if a physical body decomposed to its molecular level of immateriality, could not the initiated dream state continue to function at this level, keeping the conscious essence of an individual's mind vibrant, and producing a dream reality, based on the cumulative experience of the individual, alive? Who knows, but the Shadow, of what lurks in the minds of men...I'll let you know [or not], eventually. With respect, and in friendship.
harveyf