Is the Pressure Vessel Design for a Railway Cistern Appropriate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design considerations for a railway cistern intended to hold 120,000 kg of liquid. Participants explore the structural integrity of the cistern under various loading conditions, including internal pressure, weight of the liquid, and external forces due to braking and incline. The scope includes theoretical analysis and mathematical reasoning related to pressure vessel design.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines three design cases for evaluating the cistern's structural integrity: internal pressure plus weight of liquid, internal pressure plus weight of liquid plus inertia during braking, and a comprehensive case including incline effects.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of pressurizing a railway cistern, suggesting that it is typically just a container for liquids.
  • A participant seeks clarification on calculating total longitudinal stress for the third case, expressing uncertainty about the approach to determining the coefficient of friction.
  • Another participant identifies "u" in the equations as the coefficient of friction and suggests looking it up or determining it experimentally.
  • One participant reiterates the importance of understanding hydrostatic pressure exerted by liquids on the container's surface, contrasting it with solid loads.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to analyze the cistern's design under various loading conditions, but there is disagreement regarding the necessity of pressurization and the interpretation of forces acting on the cistern.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the assumptions regarding the necessity of pressurization for the cistern, nor have they reached a consensus on the calculations related to friction and forces acting on the vessel.

lak91
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Design a railway cistern for 120,000 kg of Liquid. It has to be a cylindrical shell on two supports.

The cistern is
18 m long
3 m in diameter (inner).
It is made of steel with the yield strength of SY= 240MPa.
Safety factor of FY= 1.9;
Total corrosion allowance, c= 3.0 mm;
Welded joint efficiency = 0.85
Shell thickness, t - 32mm

Check whether this thickness is sufficient to withstand combined action of the internal pressure, t
he weight of liquid, and the action of longitudinal external forces (tensile or compressive) .
Assume the mass of the train as m= 12 x 10^6kg, deceleration during braking of a = 3m/sec
, and during climbing uphill assume the inclination angle of 10 degrees


I assume there will be 3 design cases for this problem:
Case 1 Internal Pressure+ Weight of Liquid
Case 2Internal Pressure+ Weight of Liquid + Inertia during breaking of the railway cistern
Case 3 Forces acting on the pressure vessel: Internal Pressure + Weight of liquid+ inertia of breaking + inclination angle (locomotive applied to the first cistern in the train)

Wondering if I am going about this correctly?
 
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I don't see any problem with your method of reasoning, but my question is why a railway cistern needs to be pressurized. AFAIK, a cistern just a big container to hold water or some other liquid, isn't it?
 
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So for each case I work out the total longitudinal stress?

For case three I am unsure if I am going about it correctly:

Determine mgsinx and Ff(friction).
mgsinx pushes block down the incline and Ff(friction) opposes this.

Write the equation
Fnet = mgsinx - FfSince Ff=uFn and we know Fn=mgcosx and we also know Fnet=ma, we write

ma = mgsinx- u(mgcosx)

Divide by m throughout, so we don't need mass a=gsinx - ugcosx

How would I work out u ?
 
I think in your equations, "u" is really mu, the coefficient of friction. You should just look it up or experimentally determine it.
 
timthereaper said:
I don't see any problem with your method of reasoning, but my question is why a railway cistern needs to be pressurized. AFAIK, a cistern just a big container to hold water or some other liquid, isn't it?

The liquid exerts a hydrostatic pressure on ALL the surface of the container. That is different from a truck containing a solid. For example a liquid would exert a force on the ends of the cylinder when the train was horizontal, but a solid would not.
 

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