Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[CEL]

Define ghosts.

Who is trying to make it invisible to radar? There are a lot of UFO reports that show that these things aren't shy, and in some cases seem to go out of their way to be seen.

I guess all I'm saying is we don't know what they are, and for us to assume to know all the science behind the phenomena is just plain wrong.

Whether it being little green men, a modern artifact of the human mind, us from the future, us from the past, military toys, swamp gas, weather baloons, ball lightning or otherwise, we, the public, do not know what it is and should just keep an open mind about the science involved.

I agree that we must have an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall from the openings.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't believe in ghosts. If there was some crazy physics by which an object could move through the air without affecting it, it would be easier to make it invisible to radar.
With the well behaved physics we know it is possible to build stealth planes that are almost invisible to radar.

You draw hasty conclusions. I can easily postulate objects moving through air at multi-Mach speeds without making a somic boom.

An optical effect could do that.

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, I'm just suggesting you unnecessarily rule out possibilities.

 

[gareth]

I agree that we must have an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall from the openings.

Lets say you went back in time, told someone from the 1500's that in the future we could fly through air faster than sound could travel, communicate with people in another land using invisible rays, light heat and power every home with the motion of particles we can't even see and play a round of golf on the moon.

Try telling them to have an open mind.

Some things just plain don't know yet.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How can we explain objects "flying" at 1900 mph over Crawford, TX. And if we decide that they are extraterrestrial objects, how do we explain how they got to earth?

If we can offer a reasonable explanation for an event, we do, and if we can't, we dont. That's as far as we can go here.

There is nothing wrong with a little mystery.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A potentially related topic.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=116408

 

[baywax]

Here's the details on "The Fifth-Dimension Catapult".

 

[CEL]

You draw hasty conclusions. I can easily postulate objects moving through air at multi-Mach speeds without making a somic boom.

An optical effect could do that.

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, I'm just suggesting you unnecessarily rule out possibilities.

If you read my previous post, I was referring to material objects. I suggested that the supposed UFO could be an electromagnetic phenomenon, since it was supposedly caught in radar screens.

 

[CEL]

Lets say you went back in time, told someone from the 1500's that in the future we could fly through air faster than sound could travel, communicate with people in another land using invisible rays, light heat and power every home with the motion of particles we can't even see and play a round of golf on the moon.

Try telling them to have an open mind.

Some things just plain don't know yet.

And if I told them that a material object could fly at high speed in the air without causing a shock wave, they would doubt me. And I doubt it now.
The fact is that some ideas, that once were thought crazy, are now real. Other ideas, that were once thought crazy, are still thought crazy.
They have laughed at Galileo and they have laughed at Bozo, the clown. This does not make Bozo a scientist.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you read my previous post, I was referring to material objects. I suggested that the supposed UFO could be an electromagnetic phenomenon, since it was supposedly caught in radar screens.

Yes. I caught that.

I'm was just pointing out that assuming any material object will have to create a sonic boom of the right size to be detected is a bit hasty.

A few decades ago I would have thought that any material object would have had to show up on radar too.

There's more'n one way to skin a cat.

 

[baywax]

Someone from the philosophical bend might say that a hologram could achieve radar stealth and hyper speeds.

This can also be done with a search light or projector.

Both of these fall into the realm of DaveC426913's "optical effect".

 

[baywax]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

 

[Office_Shredder]

So you're telling me there was a translucent object that was barely visible from 50 meters out, and yet you were capable of tracking it from 20 miles away?

 

[Proton Soup]

low blood sugar does funny things

 

[baywax]

So you're telling me there was a translucent object that was barely visible from 50 meters out, and yet you were capable of tracking it from 20 miles away?

Yeah, like I said, I kept focus on it. And it was about the size of a chopper without the tail or the blades. Or more like a Chevy Aveo.

Considering that I was eating trailmix, my blood sugar levels were normal.

 

[DaveC426913]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

Floater?

 

[gareth]

But try to explain this one. This is a personal experience I had while climbing. I made it to about 600 feet up this cliff and found a great ledge to stop and catch the breath and view.

The view was of the 21 miles of Georgia Straight between the mainland and Vancouver Island. It was summer and their were bugs flitting around. I'm sitting there enjoying the view of these distant gulf islands and there's this bug that keeps hovering at my eye level, kind of bugging me. So I focus on the bug to see what type it is.

It really wasn't a bug. It was some kind of craft that was completely translucent and about 50 meters in front of me. Not only was the vehicle translucent but so was its occupant. The thing kind of backed off a bit, and I just stared at it, not freaking, since most of my adrenaline had been spent on the way up the cliff. I really kept my eye on it, trying to make sure I wasn't seeing things or that it wasn't a helicopter or other phenomenon. But it was still there and it was still this little capsule that looked like it was made of clear Jello, as was the pilot.

So, with my eye on the thing, it started backing off, slowly, kind of dreamily or hypnotically, remaining at eye level, retreating all the way to the horizon where the water meets Vancouver Island, 21 miles away. And that retreat took the thing about 5 minutes.

Go figure, eh?

You say it was translucent, how did it appear to you're eye. Was it like the camo in "Predator". Also, how do you know it was ocuppied?

 

[gareth]

Floater?

no...it flushed

 

[baywax]

You say it was translucent, how did it appear to you're eye. Was it like the camo in "Predator". Also, how do you know it was ocuppied?

I just came off the street after checking out my vision at 50 yards. This happened some 10 or 12 years ago so my vision was probably better but I am pretty removed from the incident now. However, today I could see with clarity a Yaris (more like the shape of this thing I'm talking about) at 50 yards, on this darker, rainy morning. And I could see the fact that there was an occupant in the vehicle. So that wasn't a problem. The translucence apparently didn't stop my identifying this thing as something other than a bug or "floater" in my eye. It happened on a clear sunny day and that may have contibuted to the visibility. Plus, I am an illustrator and imaging professional so details don't escape me easily.

This thing occurred before I saw the 1987 CGI effects in Predator. I didn't see that until later like in the 90s. I can't say that I had seen any movies with that effect in it until after this happened. There was one show that seemed to pioneer the CGI effect of the "clear Jello" monster of the deep seas. I forget the title. But when I saw that show I thought the creators had possibly gotten the idea for the effect from the same thing I had seen.

But I've never seen anything like this. A very strange feeling came from it.

I've seen other unidentified objects but only at a distance and they're usually lights that move randomly and either too slowly or to fast to be a conventional aircraft. Plus they're never on a flight path and in remote areas of wilderness. Those incidents have happened to me maybe 5 times in my life.

EDIT: Actually I'm amazed at the complacency of people when there is a strange object in the sky. I was swimming once with a bunch of people and there was a white oblong object at about 25,000 feet to the south and above where we were. I'm looking at it.. you know, like the guy that instigates everyone to look up in the same direction.. and there it is, plain as the clear blue sky, a white thing not moving, or kind of drifting sideways a bit. I kept my eye on it the whole time but everyone else just kept on having fun, with disregard for this thing. I must have looked away for a second and looked back and presto... gone.•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*Congratulations America! That is something else with the election and all that. I have a feeling what you have done will bring more security to your country than a million "orange alerts".

 

[gareth]

I just came off the street after checking out my vision at 50 yards. This happened some 10 or 12 years ago so my vision was probably better but I am pretty removed from the incident now. However, today I could see with clarity a Yaris (more like the shape of this thing I'm talking about) at 50 yards, on this darker, rainy morning. And I could see the fact that there was an occupant in the vehicle. So that wasn't a problem. The translucence apparently didn't stop my identifying this thing as something other than a bug or "floater" in my eye. It happened on a clear sunny day and that may have contibuted to the visibility. Plus, I am an illustrator and imaging professional so details don't escape me easily.

This thing occurred before I saw the 1987 CGI effects in Predator. I didn't see that until later like in the 90s. I can't say that I had seen any movies with that effect in it until after this happened. There was one show that seemed to pioneer the CGI effect of the "clear Jello" monster of the deep seas. I forget the title. But when I saw that show I thought the creators had possibly gotten the idea for the effect from the same thing I had seen.

But I've never seen anything like this. A very strange feeling came from it.

I've seen other unidentified objects but only at a distance and they're usually lights that move randomly and either too slowly or to fast to be a conventional aircraft. Plus they're never on a flight path and in remote areas of wilderness. Those incidents have happened to me maybe 5 times in my life.


•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*•*


Congratulations America! That is something else with the election and all that. I have a feeling what you have done will bring more security to your country than a million "orange alerts".

It sounds really weird.

It's interesting that you say you saw a few different things throughout you're life, as this seems to be a trend with UFO witnesses. Maybe after the first you are more observant.

And yes, congratulations America.

 

[baywax]

It sounds really weird.

It's interesting that you say you saw a few different things throughout you're life, as this seems to be a trend with UFO witnesses. Maybe after the first you are more observant.

And yes, congratulations America.

That's probably correct. I don't know if witnesses see them more often because of their first incident or if we're biased toward seeing them or if the experience makes you look for more of them.

If "the trick to money is having some" (Stuart Wilde) then perhaps the trick to seeing a UFO is having seen one.

 

[CEL]

That's probably correct. I don't know if witnesses see them more often because of their first incident or if we're biased toward seeing them or if the experience makes you look for more of them.

If "the trick to money is having some" (Stuart Wilde) then perhaps the trick to seeing a UFO is having seen one.

I think the trick to seeing a UFO is to believe they are something more than an Unidentified Flying Object.

 

[gareth]

I think the trick to seeing a UFO is to believe they are something more than an Unidentified Flying Object.

Hold on, in order to believe something is more than a UFO you first have to see a UFO. So you have already seen one, after that you can speculate anything you like.

Did you mean:

"I think the trick to seeing a UFO is just adding the U to a regular FO"?

 

[Proton Soup]

It sounds really weird.

It's interesting that you say you saw a few different things throughout you're life, as this seems to be a trend with UFO witnesses. Maybe after the first you are more observant.

And yes, congratulations America.

and seems often to be people suffering in some way, doesn't it?

y'know, the brain is a marvelous instrument. it's been keeping us alive for a long time. and it doesn't do this by always being a calm, rational, deep thinker. we haven't been out of the wilderness that long, but when we were there, we had to make a lot of snap decisions (more like reactions) based on very fuzzy data. i got to experience this often and at full volume when i was suffering more from anxiety and panic attacks. there will be some little movement in your peripheral vision and it makes you jump. you see things that aren't very clear and your brain, the marvelous thing it is, interpolates and extrapolates on the data to create something that does seem clear. and so, you often find yourself having to stop, steady yourself, analyze, realize it was just a shadow, and move on.

and maybe some other people aren't really suffering at all. maybe for them it's more of a religious experience. doesn't matter though. it's still the same "irrational" brain doing what it does best, filling in the blanks where we can't see.

 

[baywax]

and seems often to be people suffering in some way, doesn't it?

y'know, the brain is a marvelous instrument. it's been keeping us alive for a long time. and it doesn't do this by always being a calm, rational, deep thinker. we haven't been out of the wilderness that long, but when we were there, we had to make a lot of snap decisions (more like reactions) based on very fuzzy data. i got to experience this often and at full volume when i was suffering more from anxiety and panic attacks. there will be some little movement in your peripheral vision and it makes you jump. you see things that aren't very clear and your brain, the marvelous thing it is, interpolates and extrapolates on the data to create something that does seem clear. and so, you often find yourself having to stop, steady yourself, analyze, realize it was just a shadow, and move on.

and maybe some other people aren't really suffering at all. maybe for them it's more of a religious experience. doesn't matter though. it's still the same "irrational" brain doing what it does best, filling in the blanks where we can't see.

You must be talking about the outgoing US president.

 

[DaveC426913]

EDIT: Actually I'm amazed at the complacency of people when there is a strange object in the sky. I was swimming once with a bunch of people and there was a white oblong object at about 25,000 feet to the south and above where we were. I'm looking at it.. you know, like the guy that instigates everyone to look up in the same direction.. and there it is, plain as the clear blue sky, a white thing not moving, or kind of drifting sideways a bit. I kept my eye on it the whole time but everyone else just kept on having fun, with disregard for this thing.

You looked up and saw a white oblong object at 5 miles distance. Everyone else looked up and saw a dirigible. What about it was worthy of note to you?

As for it disappearing, well, looking away and looking back at something has a way of getting something lost.

 

[baywax]

You looked up and saw a white oblong object at 5 miles distance. Everyone else looked up and saw a dirigible. What about it was worthy of note to you?

As for it disappearing, well, looking away and looking back at something has a way of getting something lost.

Yes, you're right, but I am diligent when it comes to searching stuff out and it was gone.

I didn't finish my account concerning the complacency. These people saw what I was seeing. Kids said, "yeah, what is that?" Then everyone just kept swimming and playing Marco Polo.

But, my estimates of distance are bad. This could have been 2 miles up.

The most worthy thing to note about it was that it was not aggressively going in any particular direction and it didn't make any sound. It did very slowly drift to the northwest. It looked like a white Rice Crispy. It had no direction like a blimp would, and I checked it out for logos, rudder, propeller and saw nothing like that.

This isn't the most striking example from my sightings.

 

[gareth]

Yes, you're right, but I am diligent when it comes to searching stuff out and it was gone.

I didn't finish my account concerning the complacency. These people saw what I was seeing. Kids said, "yeah, what is that?" Then everyone just kept swimming and playing Marco Polo.

But, my estimates of distance are bad. This could have been 2 miles up.

The most worthy thing to note about it was that it was not aggressively going in any particular direction and it didn't make any sound. It did very slowly drift to the northwest. It looked like a white Rice Crispy. It had no direction like a blimp would, and I checked it out for logos, rudder, propeller and saw nothing like that.

This isn't the most striking example from my sightings.

Could you go into one of other sightings? Maybe not all of them, but another noteworthy one.

Personally, what was you're gut feeling when you saw them?

 

[baywax]

Could you go into one of other sightings? Maybe not all of them, but another noteworthy one.

Personally, what was you're gut feeling when you saw them?

The gut feeling is that

1. This is really happening.
2. This needs to be observed.
3. This could be dangerous.
4. 2. and 3. are conflicting each other.

I'm cooking up an image to illustrate one other incident.
Before I describe it literally, it would be good to hear
descriptions of other people's interpretations of the image.

 

[baywax]

So this composite image is of the highway where this took place but not in the area.

The "rod" is a vector drawing of what I saw.

 

[gareth]

looks like one of those socket wrench thingies. It looks fairly big from the image, seems like it could be the size of a light aircraft but can't say for sure.

If it is that size and it is moving, it's going to have to move pretty quick to get out of that valley. It doesn't look like it's designed for conventional flight either.

More details please

 

[baywax]

looks like one of those socket wrench thingies. It looks fairly big from the image, seems like it could be the size of a light aircraft but can't say for sure.

If it is that size and it is moving, it's going to have to move pretty quick to get out of that valley. It doesn't look like it's designed for conventional flight either.

More details please

I didn't question this thing's ability to fly or float because it was doing that right in where I saw it. I questioned myself and whether I was seeing a transformer on a pole or something of that nature. But there was nothing between it and the ground or anything that looked manufactured near it.

The actual location was up a granite embankment with more trees obscuring it from the highway than in the illustration. My view of it lasted 4-5 seconds since the car was traveling at about 110 km. I was not driving and was able to give it my full attention for that time. My estimate is that it was approx. 20 ft long and about 3 ft diameter. Maybe a bit bigger. The skin on it was metallic gray and non-reflective. It hasn't been there on subsequent drive-bys.

edit: it didn't move during the time I saw it.

 

[kasse]

22.29% believe that aliens have visited us. I thought this forum was serious...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

48% say yes or maybe, and about 60% say yes, maybe, or eventually they will.

 

[kasse]

Crazy, or what?

 

[gareth]

I didn't question this thing's ability to fly or float because it was doing that right in where I saw it. I questioned myself and whether I was seeing a transformer on a pole or something of that nature. But there was nothing between it and the ground or anything that looked manufactured near it.

The actual location was up a granite embankment with more trees obscuring it from the highway than in the illustration. My view of it lasted 4-5 seconds since the car was traveling at about 110 km. I was not driving and was able to give it my full attention for that time. My estimate is that it was approx. 20 ft long and about 3 ft diameter. Maybe a bit bigger. The skin on it was metallic gray and non-reflective. It hasn't been there on subsequent drive-bys.

edit: it didn't move during the time I saw it.

Did the driver of the car catch a glimpse?

If so, how did they react?

 

[DaveC426913]

The actual location was up a granite embankment with more trees obscuring it from the highway than in the illustration.
...
My estimate is that it was approx. 20 ft long and about 3 ft diameter. Maybe a bit bigger.

If it were 20 ft long, in my estimation from your pic, it would be hovering practically over the highway, or a least the shoulder. Yet you describe its location like it was behind some trees and up an embankment.

Can you clarify the apparent descrepancy? (Perhaps it's merely the photo selection.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Crazy, or what?

Yes, everyone here is crazy except you.

 

[Proton Soup]

lots of stuff reflecting off the windshield

 

[baywax]

Did the driver of the car catch a glimpse?

If so, how did they react?

No one else saw it. I wanted to show you all the whole thing without obscuring it with trees. I'm going to modify the photo I put the drawing into indicate the actual surroundings.

Nothing in the car would have reflected on the window to create this effect. I don't carry nazi hand grenades (my nic name for it) in the car.

It was back from the highway by a good 30 ft itself.

 

[gareth]

No one else saw it. I wanted to show you all the whole thing without obscuring it with trees. I'm going to modify the photo I put the drawing into indicate the actual surroundings.

Nothing in the car would have reflected on the window to create this effect. I don't carry nazi hand grenades (my nic name for it) in the car.

It was back from the highway by a good 30 ft itself.

Did you draw it to anyone else's attention?

I've read a few UFO witness reports, it's another reccuring aspect of the sightings (along with reccuring sightings over the course of their lives), that only the reporting witness could see the object.

I'm not saying the people are delusional, nor am I saying the objects are not visible to certain people, just that I've read it in quite a few reports.

 

[baywax]

Here's a really quick rendition that tries to show how the land lay under this thing.

 

[baywax]

Did you draw it to anyone else's attention?

I've read a few UFO witness reports, it's another reccuring aspect of the sightings (along with reccuring sightings over the course of their lives), that only the reporting witness could see the object.

I'm not saying the people are delusional, nor am I saying the objects are not visible to certain people, just that I've read it in quite a few reports.

The rice crispy ufo was seen by many kids and adults where I was swimming. But the attention span of all of them was minimal... probably because there were no lights or it wasn't really zooming around... if something isn't exhibiting unusual behaviour people just write it off as something unworthy of their time.

In the case of this thing by the highway, its a stretch of highway where you can do up to 140 kmph and so not many would have seen it. Or, if they caught a glimpse of it, it wasn't doing anything unusual so it wouldn't register as anything more than a metal object and that's it. My attention to detail is a more acute than most people's so I tend to put more energy into my observations of pretty well everything. That's why I held a position like bio/medical illustrator for over 14 years.

My impression of this thing, speculatively, is that it is some sort of scanner. From what I can make of it, the octagonal piece probably provides the lift while the tube provides the scanning. Not unlike a wand at the airport. What its scanning for is debatable.

I'm not saying this is extraterrestrial in origin. My gut feeling is that it's terrestrial.

 

[Proton Soup]

i don't mean this to sound derogatory, but these experiences are starting to sound more like symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.

 

[DaveC426913]

The rice crispy ufo was seen by many kids and adults where I was swimming. But the attention span of all of them was minimal... probably because there were no lights or it wasn't really zooming around... if something isn't exhibiting unusual behaviour people just write it off as something unworthy of their time.

Again, I've got to ask. What about this object was worthy of note at all?

My impression of this thing, speculatively, is that it is some sort of scanner. From what I can make of it, the octagonal piece probably provides the lift while the tube provides the scanning. Not unlike a wand at the airport. What its scanning for is debatable.

What? You're ready to assign a purpose and functionality to it? You're putting the cart up front and you haven't even got a horse yet, don't you think?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree. You are welcome to share your story, but please avoid any speculation based on an assumed premise.

 

[CEL]

Here is the description of a UFO sighting, with many witnesses.

Last Saturday morning, about 9am on a sunny day, I was driving roughly north in a semi-rural area just south of Washington, DC, when I spotted a black flying saucer that appeared to be hovering a half-mile or so ahead, about 50 yards up. It was flat on the bottom and very streamlined and symmetrical – somewhat like two tear drops placed sideways and set on a flat surface. It looked to be about the size of a car. I, along with a handful of other drivers slowed to a crawl to watch this thing float along very, very slowly.

What do you guys think of it?

 

[gareth]

Here is the description of a UFO sighting, with many witnesses.

What do you guys think of it?

Without a reference to the source of the text, or the context of the account, it is just prose.

 

[CEL]

Without a reference to the source of the text, or the context of the account, it is just prose.

It is the account of a guy named Ken Fischer. It happened last May around 9am near Washington DC. What more do you need?

 

[DaveC426913]

What more do you need?

Again with the 'what more do you need'. Have you learned nothing from this thread?

 

[baywax]

Again, I've got to ask. What about this object was worthy of note at all?

Sorry about my speculations. The note worthy thing about the object was that it was defying the law of gravity.

I'm done with this topic now thanks.