Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[N468989]

we are visitors... simple as that.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

we are visitors... simple as that.

Prove it?

 

[N468989]

Prove it?

I can only imagine, life itself most certainly formed on earth, due to our conditions in which we survive, but by what means can we prove that we are not from somewhere else. It's like someone lives in country XYZ, and was born in ABC, does it mean that, where they live now is where they have always been?

You say "Prove A" and i say "Prove !A".

We cannot prove that, since there isn't proof yet or may never be, maybe the absence of proof is proof itself!

We can't find the missing link.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I can only imagine, life itself most certainly formed on earth, due to our conditions in which we survive, but by what means can we prove that we are not from somewhere else. It's like someone lives in country XYZ, and was born in ABC, does it mean that, where they live now is where they have always been?

You say "Prove A" and i say "Prove !A".

We cannot prove that, since there isn't proof yet or may never be, maybe the absence of proof is proof itself!

We can't find the missing link.

Why?

Isn't that just a strong anthropic principle? And thus begging the question endlessly.

 

[N468989]

Why?

Isn't that just a strong anthropic principle? And thus begging the question endlessly.

We can only imagine it's that way, due to our limited understanding of our being. We might be capable of understanding someday, but not today. What we know as valid today, tomorrow can be invalid. Didn't we believe the sun circled the earth?

Proof is there but we haven't been looking hard enough.

Is there life in the universe? Yes, we are part of the universe, so there is life!
Has it visited earth? Without proof, the answer in our living days is no...now its a matter of "to believe or not to believe".

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

We can only imagine it's that way, due to our limited understanding of our being. We might be capable of understanding someday, but not today. What we know as valid today, tomorrow can be invalid. Didn't we believe the sun circled the earth?

Proof is there but we haven't been looking hard enough.

Is there life in the universe? Yes, we are part of the universe, so there is life!
Has it visited earth? Without proof, the answer in our living days is no...now its a matter of "to believe or not to believe".

How do you induct that?

How do you know we aren't alone?

the Sun and the Earth both circle each other, from each others relative perspective.

Infinity rests on being able to tell where you are, and when.

 

[N468989]

How do you induct that?

How do you know we aren't alone?

To fully understand if we are, or not alone, we must first define what we understand by alone.
Beforehand, we must understand who we are, what is our meaning of existence (if there is such), and what is our purpose.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

To fully understand if we are, or not alone, we must first define what we understand by alone.
Beforehand, we must understand who we are, what is our meaning of existence (if there is such), and what is our purpose.

I think therefore I am, you however I'm not so sure about?

Is that it?

Very René Descartes.

 

[VooDooX]

We can't find the missing link.

Or it has been found and is being hidden by the powers that be or the church people in some pretty high places still don't like the idea of evolution

 

[DaveC426913]

To fully understand if we are, or not alone, we must first define what we understand by alone.
Beforehand, we must understand who we are, what is our meaning of existence (if there is such), and what is our purpose.

Why?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Why?

Arm waving dualism FTW!

 

[N468989]

Does it matter? The questions are always Who?What?When?Where?Why?How?

Let's be reasonable, if we had the answer this thread wouldn't even exist, more the less, if you had the answer you wouldn't give a damn so to speak. Give me your opinion instead of refuting/questioning my comments, they only my way of seeing things.

I understand the easy way out, to never answer a question is to ask another question. That's not our point here, so give me your opinion, without the facts.

 

[VooDooX]

Fungi feeding on radiation
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20070422222547data_trunc_sys.shtml

"Just as the pigment chlorophyll converts sunlight into chemical energy that allows green plants to live and grow, our research suggests that melanin can use a different portion of the electromagnetic spectrum - ionizing radiation - to benefit the fungi containing it," said co-researcher Ekaterina Dadachova.

Investigating further, the researchers measured the electron spin resonance signal after melanin was exposed to ionizing radiation and found that radiation interacts with melanin to alter its electron structure. This, they believe, is an essential step for capturing radiation and converting it into a different form of energy to make food.

Metal Eating Bacteria
http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/bactercorrode.php

Bacteria live in clouds/snow
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87761584&ps=rs

Facultative anaerobic Bacteria (able to live with and without oxygen present
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g2t215344n884160/

Bacteria that live on uranium
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061019192814.htm
http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=765.php
http://blogs.discovery.com/news_sustainable/2009/09/radioactive_cleanup.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I decided to delete the off-topic posts and leave only the references provided. Let's refrain from personal theories about how bacterial or viral life might survive in space and reference only published papers.

thread open.

 

[baywax]

Its always going to be classified as swamp gas..

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/io9/2009/10/aaah.jpg



There must be some way to identify if swamp gas is extraterrestrial or not.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Heh, the swamp gas explanation was an admitted dodge. That came from Hynek when he was still heading up Bluebook for the USAF. He later became a convert and the so-called father of modern ufology.


...not to say that swamp gas have never been the cause of a UFO report. Atmostpheric phenomena are certainly at least one class of UFOs.

 

[baywax]

Heh, the swamp gas explanation was an admitted dodge. That came from Hynek when he was still heading up Bluebook for the USAF. He later became a convert and the so-called father of modern ufology.


...not to say that swamp gas have never been the cause of a UFO report. Atmostpheric phenomena are certainly at least one class of UFOs.

Thanks Ivan. That's good news that Hynek went from totally nonconstructive criticism to investigation. Probably brought some brains to the whole deal.

 

[DaveC426913]

Its always going to be classified as swamp gas..

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/io9/2009/10/aaah.jpg



There must be some way to identify if swamp gas is extraterrestrial or not.

That's really cool and really wild and most certainly very rare, but I don't see anything worth getting in a tizzy about.

It's an atmospheric phenomenon. The fact that I've never seen one like this doesn't make me hesitant at all to conclude that that's what it is. It might be a lens cloud, more commonly seen in clear skies. This one just happens to be in an overcast sky. I would guess that the bright ring is an area where the two air masses cause the clouds to get very thin and transparent, and the sun is shining through.

Absolutely, there are some unlikely factors contributing to its existence, but nothing outside the bounds of atmospheric phenomena is required to explain it.

 

[Galteeth]

Not sure if this has been brought up in this very long thread but:

Wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption that if aliens had sufficient technology to travel large interstellar distances, they would also have sufficient stealth technology to prevent us from detecting them? And furthermore that since they have no made effort to contact us, they have no interest in being detected?

In other words, doesn't it seem that it's very unlikely that aliens would be visiting us secretly but get accidentally detected as UFOs?

 

[TurtleMeister]

In other words, doesn't it seem that it's very unlikely that aliens would be visiting us secretly but get accidentally detected as UFOs?

Wouldn't it be very unlikely that if aliens were secretly visiting us that their being detected as UFOs would make any difference?

 

[Galteeth]

Wouldn't it be very unlikely that if aliens were secretly visiting us that their being detected as UFOs would make any difference?

No. If they were indifferent to detection and were visiting us, we would have more reliable evidence of them. If they are making some effort to shield themselves from detection, they would not be detected by random people, pilots, and radar but be undetectable by more substantive methods. In other words, if they were able to be seen by people, photographed, and detectable by radar, what are the odds that more reliable evidence of them wouldn't have turned up by now?

 

[baywax]

Wouldn't it be very unlikely that if aliens were secretly visiting us that their being detected as UFOs would make any difference?

The difference would be that our behaviour would change toward pandemic panic and their observations of our natural state would be spoiled.

 

[TurtleMeister]

No. If they were indifferent to detection and were visiting us, we would have more reliable evidence of them. If they are making some effort to shield themselves from detection, they would not be detected by random people, pilots, and radar but be undetectable by more substantive methods. In other words, if they were able to be seen by people, photographed, and detectable by radar, what are the odds that more reliable evidence of them wouldn't have turned up by now?

The difference would be that our behaviour would change toward pandemic panic and their observations of our natural state would be spoiled.

The point of my question was to emphasize that UFO's do not qualify as evidence. And the aliens would know that.

Conversation aboard alien craft:

alien1 to alien2: Should we really do this experiment. What about the Prime Directive? Will not the earthlings be able to detect us?

alien2 to alien1: Don't worry. We will look like swamp gas. And even if someone does see too much, who would believe them?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We need to end this line of discussion as it is far too speculative. It is fair to say we cannot anticipate with confidence the motives or thought processes of any ET species, should they exist.

When we can explain the motives and actions of teenagers, then we can talk about ET.

 

[TurtleMeister]

We need to end this line of discussion as it is far too speculative. It is fair to say we cannot anticipate with confidence the motives or thought processes of any ET species, should they exist.

When we can explain the motives and actions of teenagers, then we can talk about ET

Sorry, my post was meant to be partly for humor.

 

[baywax]

Anyone seen this? I had no idea the research goes as far back as 1949

http://www.nicap.org/waves/1949fullrep.htm

 

[Galteeth]

Anyone seen this? I had no idea the research goes as far back as 1949

http://www.nicap.org/waves/1949fullrep.htm

Sure. The US government had to take the UFO threat pretty seriously. Keep in mind, this was the time of the cold war, where violations of US air space represented existential threats.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Anyone seen this? I had no idea the research goes as far back as 1949

http://www.nicap.org/waves/1949fullrep.htm

Checkout the Napster at the top of the S&D main page. Project Sign began in 1947, before Grudge.

 

[Blenton]

How disheartening would it be to discover over millennia of searching for life that we are the first that has evolved from the galaxy. The possibility is there.

 

[WhoWee]

How disheartening would it be to discover over millennia of searching for life that we are the first that has evolved from the galaxy. The possibility is there.

If you think of our existence as a 10,000 year cycle - how many comparable cycles are possible (& how long have permissable conditions existed somewhere in the Universe)?