Joule Thomson Effect: Adiabatic Free Expansion & Derivation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Joule-Thomson effect, specifically its equation and its application to adiabatic free expansion of real gases. Participants explore the derivation of the equation and its historical significance in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Historical
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the equation JT = (1/Cp)(2a/RT - b) for adiabatic free expansion, seeking clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that the expression is dependent on a specific equation of state, possibly Van der Waals, and emphasizes that the Joule-Thompson experiment is more general.
  • A participant defines the Joule-Thompson coefficient as ∂T/∂P at constant enthalpy, noting that it represents a throttling process that is neither isothermal, adiabatic, cyclic, nor reversible.
  • Historical context is provided regarding the Joule-Thompson experiment's role in developing an absolute temperature scale, with references to Carnot's theorems and the Carnot-Clapeyron theorem.
  • Another participant requests further clarification on the relationship between the Joule-Thompson experiment and the absolute temperature scale, indicating some confusion about the historical development.
  • Details are shared about how the experiment measured various parameters to fit coefficients in Rankine's equation of state for air, contributing to the definition of a temperature scale independent of thermometer choice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the Joule-Thomson equation and its derivation. There is also a lack of consensus on the historical implications of the Joule-Thomson experiment in relation to the absolute temperature scale.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the specific equations of state and historical interpretations remain unresolved. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the relationship between the Joule-Thomson effect and thermodynamic principles.

akhyansh
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Is the equation
JT = (1/Cp)(2a/RT - b)
valid for adiabatic free expansion of real gases only? How was this equation derived?
 
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The expression you provide appears to be dependent on a specific equation of state (you use Van der Waals, if I may hazard a guess),but the Joule-Thompson experiment is much more general that that.

The Joule-Thompson coefficient is defined as ∂T/∂P at constant enthalpy,and represents a process that is neither isothermal, adiabatic, cyclic, or reversible (throttling of gases). The general expression is

[tex](\frac{\partial T}{\partial P})_{H} = \frac{-V}{C_{P}}(1-T\alpha_{T})[/tex]

Historically, the Joule-Thompson experiment led to the development of an absolute temperature scale.
 
Look also here.

Historically, the Joule-Thompson experiment led to the development of an absolute temperature scale.

Could you explain that a little more? Because I thought the absolute temperature scale was a consequence of Carnot theorems.
 
Carcul said:
Look also here.

Could you explain that a little more? Because I thought the absolute temperature scale was a consequence of Carnot theorems.

They are related- the experiment was carried out to measure "Carnot's function", which is essentially the efficiency of a Carnot cycle engine (Carnot-Clapeyron theorem).

The details are presented in Truesdell's "The Tragicomical History of Thermodynamics (1822-1854)", specifically section 9D. Briefly, the experiments measured the bath temperature, start and end pressures, and "cooling constant" (Joule-Thomson coefficient), and those were used to fit coefficients in Rankine's equation of state for air p = f(V,T), which would allow the use of air for a 'perfect gas thermometer'.

As a consequence, it became possible to define a temperature scale that is independent of the choice of body used as a thermometer, just as the efficiency of a heat engine is independent of the choice of working fluids.
 
Thank you very much for your explanation.
 

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