Lagrangian of a double pendulum, finding kinetic energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Lagrangian of a double pendulum, specifically focusing on the kinetic energy of the second mass and the role of trigonometric identities in its derivation. The context is drawn from Taylor's classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the cosine term in the kinetic energy expression for the second mass, questioning its origin and relevance. Some participants suggest starting with the position of the second mass and differentiating to derive the kinetic energy. Others explain that the cosine term arises from a trigonometric identity related to the angles of the pendulum.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the derivation of the kinetic energy expression and clarifying the mathematical relationships involved. There is an exchange of ideas regarding the vector addition of velocities and the application of trigonometric identities, indicating a productive direction in understanding the problem.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific equations and terms from classical mechanics, highlighting the complexity of the double pendulum system and the assumptions made in the derivation process.

P Felds
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Homework Statement
Find the lagrangian of the double pendulum, kinetic energy
Relevant Equations
L=T-U
This is from Taylor's classical mechanichs, 11.4, example of finding the Lagrangian of the double pendulum
Relevant figure attached below
Angle between the two velocities of second mass is
$$\phi_2-\phi_1$$
Potential energy
$$U_1=m_1gL_1$$
$$U_2=m_2g[L_1\cos(1-\phi_1)+L_2(1-\phi_2)]$$
$$(U\phi_1,phi_2)=m_1gL_1+m_2g[L_1\cos(1-\phi_1)+L_2(1-\phi_2)]$$
Kinetic energy of the second mass in the double pendulum
$$T_1=\frac{1}{2}m_1L_1^2\dot\phi_1^2$$
$$T_2=\frac{1}{2} m_2[L_1^2\dot\phi_1^2+2L_1L_2\dot\phi_2\dot\phi_1\cos(\phi_1-\phi_2)+L_2^2\dot\phi_2^2]$$
Where $$ T_2=\frac{1}{2}m_2(v_1+L_2\dot\phi_2)^2$$
I am trouble understanding the cos term here. Does it come from the unit vector? Can someone explain why it's involved, because I could not follow why it's here after squaring the velocity for the second kinetic energy
$$2L_1L_2\dot\phi_2\dot\phi_1\cos(\phi_1-\phi_2)$$
 

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If you want to understand where the KE of the second mass comes from, then start with the position of the second mass: $$(x, y) = (L_1\sin \phi_1 +L_2 \sin \phi_2, L_1\cos \phi_1 + L_2\cos \phi_2)$$Then differentiate.

The ##\cos(\phi_1 - \phi_2)## term arises from the relevant trig identity for a cosine of a difference of angles.
 
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Thank you very much
 
You get the velocity of the second particle by adding the two contributions ##L_1 \dot{\phi}_1## (varying ##\phi_1## whilst keeping ##\phi_2## fixed) and ##L_2 \dot{\phi}_2## (varying ##\phi_2## whilst keeping ##\phi_1## fixed) vectorially. Joining the vectors tip to tail, the angle between them is ##\pi - (\phi_2 - \phi_1)## so cosine rule states ##v^2 = L_1^2 \dot{\phi}_1^2 + L_2^2 \dot{\phi}_2^2 + 2L_1 L_2 \dot{\phi}_1 \dot{\phi}_2 \cos{(\phi_2 - \phi_1)}##.
 
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