Legal proof that set of Rational numbers is countable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the countability of the set of rational numbers (Q) and the methods to demonstrate this property. Participants explore various approaches, including the use of mappings and functions, as well as referencing established proofs such as Cantor's diagonal argument.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the set of rational numbers is countable because it can be expressed as a subset of the countable set of positive integers (Z).
  • Another participant seeks clarification on how to represent this countability as a mapped 1:1 function, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the terminology.
  • A later reply corrects the terminology used by the initial poster, suggesting that a bijective function is what they meant to reference.
  • Another participant provides a standard proof attributed to Cantor, outlining a method to list rational numbers in a specific order while skipping non-lowest terms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best way to demonstrate the countability of rational numbers, with multiple approaches and terminologies being discussed. There is some confusion regarding the definitions of functions and mappings.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the precise definitions of functions and the implications of countability, as well as the need for clarity in the terminology used by participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying set theory, mathematical proofs, or the properties of rational numbers, particularly in the context of countability and mappings.

Liquid7800
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Hello,

Just wondering if this is a correct way to say the set of RATIONAL numbers is countable:

Rationals (Q) is countable , because for every Q = p/q , such that p & q are positive INTS (Z)

and since the set of positive INTs (Z) is countable ( a 1:1 correspondence) Q is countable because it is a SUBSET of a countable set...

it can be listed by listing those Q's with
denominator q = 1 in the first row of a listing matrix
denominator q =2 in the second row and so on...
with p1 = 1 , p2 =2, etc... for each row...

will eventually cover ALL rationalsREMARK:
Ive seen the little N x N matrix and path listing for each rational...but I would like to know...
How would you show this as a mapped 1:1 function?? such that A ---> B showing f(a) = some b??Thanks for any input...
 
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Liquid7800 said:
How would you show this as a mapped 1:1 function?? such that A ---> B showing f(a) = some b??
Thanks for any input...

You might be asking for an onto function. 1:1 means if f(a)=f(b), then a = b.
 
Thanks for the reply...
However, when I said
How would you show this as a mapped 1:1 function?? such that A ---> B showing f(a) = some b??
I shouldve said:
A 1:1 correspondence function or a bijective function...
 
The standard proof (Cantor) is as follows: Let a(i,j)=i/j. Then the order to show countable is a(1,1), a(2,1), a(1,2), a(3,1), [a(2,2)], a(1,3), a(4,1), a(3,2), a(2,3), a(1,4),... skipping terms in [] since these are not in lowest terms.
 

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