Let A={(x,y):x>0,x^2>y>0}. Prove for all lines through (0,0)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eclair_de_XII
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Lines
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves the set defined as ##A=\{(x,y)\in ℝ^2: x>0,\space x^2 > y > 0\}## and requires proving that for all lines through the origin, there exists an interval along those lines that does not belong to the set A. The discussion centers on the properties of lines represented as ##b(x)=\langle x,ax \rangle## for various values of ##a##.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss constructing intervals along the lines and consider the implications of different values of ##a##. There is an exploration of inequalities that determine when points on the line are outside of set A. Some participants question how to express certain conditions and whether their reasoning is correct.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing with participants offering pointers and suggestions to simplify approaches. There is recognition of the complexity involved in proving continuity for the defined functions and the need for careful consideration of limits and neighborhoods around the origin.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem involves multiple cases based on the value of ##a##, and there is a mention of a second part to the problem that builds on the first. Some constraints regarding the definitions of continuity and the behavior of functions near the origin are also under discussion.

Eclair_de_XII
Messages
1,082
Reaction score
91

Homework Statement


"Let ##A=\{(x,y)\in ℝ^2: x>0,\space x^2 > y > 0\}##. Prove that for all lines ##b(x)=\langle x,ax \rangle,\space a,x\in ℝ## passing through ##(x,y)=(0,0)##, there exists an interval along that line ##b(x)## that is not in ##A##."

Homework Equations


Ball of radius ##\epsilon## centered around ##(a,b)##: ##B((a,b),\epsilon)##
Set of points intersected by a line ##l(x)## with length ##|t|⋅|l(x)|##: ##\{t⋅l(x):t\in ℝ\}##

The Attempt at a Solution


Basically, I constructed an interval of ##b(x)##, with ##|b(x)|=1## centered about ##(x,y)=(0,0)## by forming the intersection: ##B((0,0),\epsilon)\cap \{tb(x):t\in ℝ\}=\{|t|<\epsilon\}##.

I was going to show that if ##t\in (-\epsilon,\epsilon)\cap \{t:xt<0\}\subset \{|t|<\epsilon\}##, that ##\{tb(x)\}⊄A##, but couldn't figure out how to express it. I'm not completely sure that the rough solution is correct, either. For one, the set falls apart whenever ##x=0##. And this is basically the sketch of what I'm working with, here.

u3QVwUo.png


There's also a part two to this problem, but I think I should hold back on that until I've finished part one.
 

Attachments

  • Bkis5xT.png
    Bkis5xT.png
    24 KB · Views: 451
  • u3QVwUo.png
    u3QVwUo.png
    9.1 KB · Views: 441
  • u3QVwUo.png
    u3QVwUo.png
    9.1 KB · Views: 489
Physics news on Phys.org
First consider the easy cases:
  1. a<0.
  2. a=0
For those cases you should be able to prove that the entire line lies outside A.

The remaining case is where a>0. Looking st the diagram, it's clear that it will be the part of the line in the first quadrant that is closest to the origin, that will be outside a. In particular it will be above A. Try to write an inequality involving ##x## that is satisfied iff the point ##(x,ax)## is outside A. You'll get a quadratic inequality. From that you should be able to deduce over what set of values of ##x## the inequality holds, and thereby show that the set contains an open interval. .
 
Thanks for the pointers; it really simplified how to approach the solution. Anyway, so I should be done with part 1. Here's part 2 and my attempt.

1. Homework Statement

"Define ##F:ℝ^2 \rightarrow ℝ## by ##f(x)=0## if ##x\notin A## and ##f(x)=1## if ##x\in A##. For ##h\in ℝ^2##, define ##g_h:ℝ\rightarrow ℝ## by ##g_h(t)=f(th)##. Show that each ##g_h## is continuous at ##0##, but ##f## is not continuous at ##(0,0)##."

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


(1)
First, I want to prove that ##g_h## is continuous at ##0## (which I assume to is supposed to mean at ##t=0##. So I wanted to do an epsilon/delta argument, but got stuck. Basically, I have the inequality: ##|t(x,y)-(0,0)|=|t⋅(x,y)|=|t|⋅|(x,y)|=0<\delta##. But I don't know how to draw an implication that ##|g_h(t)-0|<\epsilon## follows from ##\delta >0##

(2)
As for showing that ##f## is not continuous at ##(0,0)##, I had planned on setting ##\delta>0##. Then I was going to show that ##B((0,0),\delta)## contains points from both ##A## and ##A^c##. I was going to do a proof by contradiction for this part. I let ##\epsilon = \frac{1}{2}##. Then I assumed that to the contrary that if ##x\in B((0,0),\delta)## then that implied that ##|f(x)-1|<\frac{1}{2}## and ##|f(x)-0|<\frac{1}{2}##. After, I had planned on using the triangle inequality to show that contradiction.

I haven't actually written down this solution yet; this is just a rough draft of what I would do with my current knowledge.
 
Okay, I figured it out by looking at my notes. According to my notes, part 1 of the second part should be clear from the work done on the first.

Thanks for your help, @andrewkirk.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K