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Life without God

  1. Jul 27, 2003 #1
    Im an athiest, lets get that out of the way. Anyway, i was debating someone and he said something that really made me think a lot (not change my belief, just think). Here it is...

    "We don't exist. Everything is in the past, even something that happened 0.00000000000000001 seconds ago, therefore Life is only a memory. There is no such thing as living in the moment, because the moment has allready passed and is now a memory. You see through your eyes, hear with your ears, smell with your nose, think with your brain. When you die you cannot see, you cannot hear, you cannot think, and so you cease to exist, so does your memory of life. Therefore, you never existed. Anything you leave behind like children, you leave in a world that doesn't exist, nothing you do in this life matters because when it's over it never will have happened."

    So i ask, do you think this might be the best philosophical argument for the existence of God or an afterlife?, is their a flaw in this argument?.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2003
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 27, 2003 #2
    Well does existence come about through non-existence? And what is the point of existence, if not to perpetuate itself?

    And who's going to "prime the pump" so to speak?
  4. Jul 27, 2003 #3
    Do you mind elaborating?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2003
  5. Jul 27, 2003 #4
    Actually I haven't put much thought into it, other than what I've stated on a couple of previous threads ...

    From the thread, Does God Exist? ...

    Well I thought I made another post similar to this, but some reason I can't find it? Aside from that I can't I think of much else to say. Just being kind of lazy today I guess? Sorry.
  6. Jul 27, 2003 #5
    This much similiar to what i've always thought. A friend of mine the other night mentioned a quote about a man who, by refusing to acknowledge the world outside his door, denied the existince of the rest of the world. When he askes me if i agreed with that, i said of course. We started discussing the past and future and about how neither existed. To me, reality is completely in the mind of the beholder. The world does revolve and me. just as it does for you. but each is our own separate reality. People i've never met or interacted with or who haven't in some way effected me or the people i interact with, never existed.

    Because i think that, much as your friend, i've come to believe that all of reality, existince whatever you call it, is a completely mental thing. everything is just someone's thought. my thought, your thought. Some would then look at my veiw and come to the conlusion that i think nothing is real, when quite contrary, everything is.

    Unless there is a god, which i don't particulary care if there is or isn't, life isn't really anything at all, just a fleeting thought. i think we all make too big a deal out of it, myself included. It's only life... make of it what you will.
  7. Jul 27, 2003 #6


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    If life isn't that big of a deal then don't get mad when I put a shell in your head, or someone you love. Seriously, I wouldn't do that but isn't that kind of a reckless way to think? Life SEEMS to revolve around us as individuals because we ARE individual, independent (to a point) beings. We are NOT a collective. You cannot live in someone elses conciousness. Being John Doe is all you know. No matter how hard I think or try, I will always be the person born to my parents, growing up in their house, living my life up to this point in time. I guess for some people it is a matter of accepting it or not? I guess a better way to put it is that ONES OWN LIFE REVOLVES AROUND THEM.
  8. Jul 27, 2003 #7
    I like the quote iacchus, but One day human discovery may be able to make us live forever, and that is a purposeful possibility. So does the argument still hold weight?.
  9. Jul 27, 2003 #8
    you bring up a good point. If there is a god, and we one day advance enough to live forever, would that not make us in that way omnipotent? Would we not then live as long as god? Or do you believe that we would never even meet god, as we would never die?

    We may one day advance science far enough that we ourselves are "omnipotent" or at least far beyond what we today concieve. This is one thing I can't understand with regard to religion. You believe that God is omnipotent, but how can that be accepted with the advancement of mankind. Each day new discoveries are made that advance us farther than we ever though possible. I'm sure to people in the 10th century we'd seem like gods. "fire in the palms of our hands,moving pictures on the wall, monstrous carriages that transport us at lightning speeds(cars)" So I'm sure in another century our advances will be equally as great. And the next century, and the century after that.. so on and so forth.

    So my question is this- If you believe in God, you must accept that one day our "power" will be equal to his. That if there is a 'god' or other being, that one day will will have all his powers. Do you accept that ?
  10. Jul 27, 2003 #9

    All i was saying is that it's what you make of it. I think that there is pleanty of people who's 'bust a cap in yo ass' just for the hell of it. It's what kind of people they are. A lot of people though, fortunately for the rest of us, aren't like that. And we just chose for our worlds to remain killing spree free. But also, there is some 'collectiveness' to us all, or at least most of us. That's what society is.

    I think that for many people who believe in god, we could never ever reach His level. Our power will ever remain less in that as ours grows, so must his, or at least our understanding of his
  11. Jul 27, 2003 #10
    I too have had similar thoughts to that of what your friend said.
  12. Jul 27, 2003 #11
    And yet what if all of a sudden we deplete all our natural resources, and die off, because of -- in our attempts to "play God" -- we have failed to live in harmony with Mother Nature?

    Wouldn't that in effect be "Karma" returning to itself?

    While at some point, if there is an afterlife, don't you think it would be dumb not to face up to it, i.e., by trying to prolong that which is inevitable?

    While indeed it's a very interesting possibility about prolonging life, and yet if we don't learn to live within our means on this planet first, chances are it'll never happen. And even at that rate, if it did, we might wind up with the kind of society reminiscent of the movie, Zardoz. Anyone ever catch that one?
  13. Jul 28, 2003 #12
    It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    Your friend's philosophy sounds like the one Simba espouses in the Disney cartoon, "The Lion King." You know, the "Hakoona Matta" bit of "no past, no worries". At one point the local shaman finds simba to tell him his familly needs him. Simba replies, but that's all in the past, it doesn't mean anything to me now. The shaman hits him over the head with a stick. When simba says ouch, why did you do that, the Shaman tells him it doesn't matter, its in the past.

    Without the present, the concept of the past would have no meaning. Without a context, the word "past" has no meaning. In other words, to say that everything occurs in the past is an oxymoron.

    It may be that we just give it meaning as we go and this is no better or worse than some sort of Divine meaning handed down from heaven, but whatever the case it is our meaning. We can accept the meaning we give life, or we can just accept that life perhaps has no meaning, but in either case we must do the accepting and, in doing so, we give it meaning.
  14. Jul 28, 2003 #13
    Hmm ... sounds like the very temptation in the Garden of Eden.

    If in fact Mother Earth will support it.

    And yet as I understand, the angels in heaven, as intermediaries between heaven and earth, are already endowed with this capacity ... as "mini gods" so to speak.

    As a matter-of-fact, if understood correctly, it would begin to explain the nature gods and godessess in general, like throughout ancient Greece and what not. Whereby the gods or godesses we choose -- or, do they choose us? -- depends upon the "afiliations" we establish in ourselves.
  15. Jul 31, 2003 #14


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    The believers have already beat me to it. Most say that before we ever acheive immortality, Jesus will return, blah blah.

    As far as depleting natural resources, before that ever completly happens, We'd probably be robbing mars of her resources. Perhaps setting up space colonies, etc. Maybe one day we'll figure out how to recycle almost everything.

    Well, if we ever come up with replicator type technology (they dream, then we build it) then I don't think we'd have much to worry about.

    And to the immortality note, I don't think true immortality is possible. Only medical immortality. A person could still be physically killed, just not from old age.

    I'd say there is no arguement for god that strikes down the "If there is a god that is omnipotent, and if he loves me, and wants me to be in heaven with him, there is no good reason he cannot reveal to me (everyone) the proper path to take"

    And basically, look at the shear # of religions, I'd say that if one of those lighting throwing SOB's can't take the time to let us know whats up, I'd rather be in his/her version of hell.
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