Looking for a simple generalization regarding absolute values

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generalization of the triangle inequality in the context of absolute values and metrics. Participants explore how to justify the application of the triangle inequality in proofs involving sums of absolute values and whether a broader statement can be made regarding expressions with varying numbers of absolute value symbols.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a generalization regarding the comparison of expressions with absolute values, questioning if more absolute value symbols imply a greater or equal value.
  • Another participant identifies the step taken as an application of the triangle inequality, suggesting that the expression can be framed as |a_1 + a_2| ≤ |a_1| + |a_2|.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about stating that the triangle inequality holds in a specific metric, seeking clarity on how to phrase this relationship.
  • There is a suggestion that it is acceptable to reference the standard triangle inequality if it can be shown that the metric reduces to it.
  • One participant believes they have demonstrated that the triangle inequality holds for their metric due to the standard triangle inequality, though they express some uncertainty in their explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the triangle inequality but express differing views on how to generalize its application and articulate its relevance in the context of metrics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of the generalization sought.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the need to clarify assumptions about the nature of the expressions involved, particularly concerning the conditions under which the triangle inequality applies. There is also a discussion about the implications of using absolute values in summations and how this relates to the properties of metrics.

1MileCrash
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Hi all,

I was working on a proof that essentially worked because:

|x-y|+|y-z| >= |x-y+y-z|

I knew this was true because, but I'm looking for a generalization in a way that I could write in a proof.

Can you say that when comparing two expressions of addition/subtraction that are identical except for absolute values, if one has more absolute value symbols, it is always greater (or equal)? But then that would also require me to say something like "it has to be a sum/can't be a "negative absolute value (subtraction).." It's hard to explain.

How would you justify the step I did?
 
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Do you mean like
\left| \sum_{i=1}^{n} a_i \right| \leq \sum_{i=1}^{n} |a_i|

Your step is literally the triangle inequality. Let a_1 = x-y and a_2 = y-z then you just wrote that
|a_1 + a_2| \leq |a_1| + |a_2|
 
Office_Shredder said:
Do you mean like
\left| \sum_{i=1}^{n} a_i \right| \leq \sum_{i=1}^{n} |a_i|

Your step is literally the triangle inequality. Let a_1 = x-y and a_2 = y-z then you just wrote that
|a_1 + a_2| \leq |a_1| + |a_2|

Yes, it is the triangle inequality, but I was trying to prove that something was a metric, which required me to prove that the triangle inequality held true for that function. Am I allowed to say "the triangle inequality holds in this metric due to the triangle inequality" in this case since it reduces to the standard triangle inequality? It sounds... weird.
 
Yes, you can say that if you also show that it reduces to the "standard" triangle inequality (by which I assume you mean with real numbers).
 
Yes, real numbers. These numbers are components of a member of R^n, X, Y, and Z.

I think I did show it, basically those expressions are both in summations as part of the metric. And due the standard triangle inequality, the triangle inequality for the entire metric (with summation) holds, because for any ith term in the summation, one is surely greater due to the regular triangle inequality. So the sum is, too.

Or something like that.

Thanks all
 
Last edited:

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