Macroscopic shape of rocket exhaust

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the shape and diameter of a rocket exhaust plume in a vacuum, particularly at a distance of approximately 20 km from the nozzle, using a LH2/LOX fuel mix. Participants explore the theoretical aspects of plume expansion and the factors influencing its dimensions over distance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the change in the diameter of the rocket exhaust plume with distance, noting a reference in Rocket Propulsion Elements that mentions a vacuum limit of 0.1-10 m diameter but does not provide specific information for larger distances.
  • Another participant suggests that a rough estimate of the plume diameter can be made by knowing the exhaust gas temperature and velocity, indicating that the plume width decreases with distance but does not provide a fixed value.
  • A further inquiry is made regarding the equations governing the rate of expansion of gas during free expansion, with a suggestion that it may relate to the mean speed of the gas molecules.
  • One participant explains that typical velocities of gas can be derived from thermal velocities, mentioning that the temperature will decrease as the gas expands but suggesting that the initial temperature can be used for rough estimates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and seek clarification on specific aspects of gas expansion and plume behavior, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple perspectives on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about gas behavior, the dependence on specific definitions of plume characteristics, and the lack of detailed equations governing the expansion process.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying rocket propulsion, fluid dynamics, or thermodynamics, particularly in the context of gas expansion in a vacuum.

Alonso Quixano
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Greetings to everyone. I would like to ask how the shape of a rocket exhaust plume changes with distance, when the rocket operates in a vacuum. What I'm mainly looking for, is to see how large the diametre of the plume would be at a distance of ~20km from the nozzle. We're assuming an ordinary LH2/LOX fuel mix.

I took a look at Rocket Propulsion Elements, but I didn't manage to find the answer. It mainly concerns itself with how the plume changes depending on the surrounding atmosphere, and when it does mention a shape, it does so in a scale of a few metres. So, either it does not mention what I'm after, or I missed it completely.
(What I did find is this: In a small corner of a figure (p. 646, figure 18-4) there is a note that says "Vacuum limit 0.1-10 m dia.". I'm not sure if that answers my question, however, mainly because I'm worried that the diametre will increase with distance.)

Many thanks in advance.

(Edit: I'm posting this in "General Physics" rather than "Homework Questions", mainly because I don't know the equations that govern what I'm asking. Please inform me if that was the wrong forum.)
 
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You can get a rough estimate if you know the temperature of the exhaust gas once it left the rocket. With an exhaust velocity of ~4km/s, the gas had ~5 seconds time to expand. Typical velocities of the gas follow from the gas mixture and its temperature, that allows to calculate a typical length scale. There is no fixed plume width, of course, it just gets thinner the more far away you are, with this typical length scale calculated before.
 
Oooooooh! Neat!

Still, I will need one more nudge. I tried searching for the rate of expansion of a gas during a free expansion, but I didn't find any relevant equations. A little more help? (Maybe it has something to do with the mean speed of the molecules in it?)
 
Typical velocities = thermal velocities. The velocity a molecule has with the energy kT where k is the Boltzmann constant and T is the temperature. T will go down as the gas expands, but if you are just interested in a rough estimate it should be fine to take the temperature of the exhaust after leaving the rocket.
 

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