Magnetic field created by a long wire

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the magnetic field created by an electric current in a long straight wire is conservative or not. Participants explore the implications of the circulation of magnetic fields around different paths, including amperian loops, and the conditions under which a field is considered conservative.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a magnetic field is conservative if the circulation around a closed path is zero, questioning whether the magnetic field around a wire meets this criterion.
  • It is noted that for an amperian loop surrounding the wire, the circulation is non-zero, while for a path that does not involve the wire, the circulation is zero.
  • Participants discuss the implications of choosing different paths for line integrals, suggesting that the magnetic field may not be conservative if the circulation varies with the path.
  • One participant introduces the concept of path independence in conservative fields, indicating that if the path integral is zero for some closed paths and not for others, the field cannot be conservative.
  • Another participant mentions that the line integral is not over a simply connected space, raising the complexity of the discussion with references to cohomology groups.
  • A mathematical expression for the scalar field around the wire is provided, leading to the conclusion that while the magnetic field appears locally conservative, it is not globally conservative due to the behavior at the origin.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the magnetic field is conservative, with no consensus reached. Some argue for its non-conservativeness based on circulation properties, while others explore conditions under which it might be considered conservative.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to mathematical concepts such as path integrals and cohomology groups, which may introduce additional complexity and assumptions regarding the nature of the space in which the magnetic field exists.

Caio Graco
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The magnetic field created by an electric current in a long straight wire is conservative or not conservative?

A field is conservative when its circulation closed path is zero.

For amperiana curve that surrounds the wire circulation is non-zero, but to a curve which does not involve the wire circulation is zero. And now?
 
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Caio Graco said:
For amperiana curve that surrounds the wire circulation is non-zero, but to a curve which does not involve the wire circulation is zero. And now?
Well, the magnetic field created by an electric current in a long straight wire will always surround/include the wire.
 
Hesch said:
Well, the magnetic field created by an electric current in a long straight wire will always surround/include the wire.

But I can choose amperiana curve so as not to move the wire and thus the movement is not null unlike the curve surrounding the wire. Then the magnetic field is conservative or not?
 
Caio Graco said:
The magnetic field created by an electric current in a long straight wire is conservative or not conservative?

A field is conservative when its circulation closed path is zero.

For amperiana curve that surrounds the wire circulation is non-zero, but to a curve which does not involve the wire circulation is zero. And now?
The path integral of a conservative vector field is independent of the path. It just depends on the end points. So if it is zero for some closed paths and not for others then it is not conservative.
 
DaleSpam said:
The path integral of a conservative vector field is independent of the path. It just depends on the end points. So if it is zero for some closed paths and not for others then it is not conservative.

The line integral is not over a simply connected space. The z-axis is not included. Things get a little tricky. This can get into some very abstract things involving cohomology groups that I would like to know more of besides the buzz-word.
 
Last edited:
The scalar field about the wire is ##f= \frac{\mu_0 I}{2 \pi} [ log(r) + c ] ##.

##B = df = \frac{\mu_0 I}{2 \pi r}d\phi##. B first appears to be a conservative field.

##B = B_\phi d\phi ##

But ##\oint B_\phi d\phi = \frac{\mu_0 I}{2 \pi r} 2 \pi n ##, where n is the winding number.

##B## is locally conservative everywhere but at ##r=0##, though not globally conservative.
 
Last edited:

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