Magnetic Field, Field Intensity and Magnetisation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of magnetic field quantities, specifically the magnetic field intensity ##\vec H##, magnetic flux density ##\vec B##, and magnetization ##\vec M##, in the context of a thin current-carrying wire. Participants are examining the relationships between these quantities and exploring the implications of their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of magnetic field quantities using Ampere's Law and question the validity of their results, particularly focusing on the calculation of ##\vec J_b##. There is an exploration of potential errors in the expressions for ##\vec H## and ##\vec M##, and the implications of these errors are debated.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing corrections and clarifications regarding the expressions for ##\vec M## and ##\vec B##. Some participants express concerns about the behavior of the quantities at specific points, particularly at ##s=0##, and how assumptions about the wire's thickness affect the results.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the problem's constraints, including the assumption of an infinitely thin wire and the implications of magnetic susceptibility on the calculations. Participants are also reflecting on previous similar problems that had different constraints.

Mr_Allod
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Homework Statement
A conducting wire is placed along the z axis, carries a current I in the +z direction and
is embedded in a nonconducting magnetic material with permeability ##\mu##. Find the
magnitude and direction of ##\vec H##, ##\vec B##, ##\vec M## and the equivalent current ##\vec J_b## at the point (x,0,0).
Relevant Equations
Ampere's Law: ##\oint \vec B \cdot d\vec l##
##\vec H## and ##\vec B## Relation: ##\vec H = \frac 1 \mu_0 \vec B - \vec M##
Permeability: ##\mu = \mu_0 (1+ \chi_m)##
Magnetisation: ##\vec M = \chi_m \vec H##
Hello there, I've worked through this problem and I would just like to check whether I've understood it correctly. I found ##\vec H##, ##\vec B## and ##\vec M## using Ampere's Law and the above relations as I would for any thin current carrying wire and these were my answers:
$$\vec H = \frac I {2\pi s} \hat \phi$$ $$\vec B = \frac {\mu I} {2\pi s} \hat \phi$$ $$\vec M = \chi_m \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

For the point (x,0,0) I would simply swap ##x## for ##s##.

Then using ##\vec J_b = \nabla \times \vec M## I tried to calculate ##\vec J_b##. All but one of the terms of the cross product evaluate to 0 leaving:
$$\vec J_b = \frac 1 s \frac \partial {\partial s}(s M_\phi) \hat z = \frac 1 s \frac \partial {\partial s}(s \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s}) \hat z$$

Which as it turns out also evaluates to 0. This leads me to believe I must have misunderstood something about the question since I don't expect I would be asked to find ##\vec J_b## if it was simply 0. If somebody could help me figure out what I've done wrong I'd appreciate it.
 
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Without comparing any of the equations to what we know about electromagnetic theory, we can see there must be an error in the first part, as substituting your formula for ##\vec{\mathit H}## into your magnetisation equation gives
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
whereas you have written
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Since the problem did not specify that ##\mu=1##, at least one of those two must be wrong.
 
andrewkirk said:
Without comparing any of the equations to what we know about electromagnetic theory, we can see there must be an error in the first part, as substituting your formula for ##\vec{\mathit H}## into your magnetisation equation gives
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
whereas you have written
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Since the problem did not specify that ##\mu=1##, at least one of those two must be wrong.

Yes you are quite right, I accidentally put in the result for ##\vec B## instead of ##\vec H## when I wrote the expression for ##\vec M##. Thank you for pointing that out, I have edited it to make it correct.
 
It still contains algebraic errors.

Add your formulas for ##\vec H## and ##\vec M## together, then multiply by ##\mu_0## to get a formula for ##\vec B##. That formula doesn't match the formula for ##\vec B## you have written above, and again both can't be correct unless ##\mu = 1##, which is not given.
 
I'm sorry but I don't see what you mean. Applying your correction and doing as you say:
$$\vec H + \vec M = \frac I {2\pi s} \hat \phi + \chi_m \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi = (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
Multiplying by ##\mu_0##:
$$\mu_0(\vec H + \vec M) = \mu_0 (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Which gives the expression for ##\vec B##:
$$\vec B = \frac {\mu I} {2\pi s} \hat \phi = \mu_0 (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
 
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I think you correctly calculate the curl of ##\vec{M}## as zero for all ##s\neq 0##.

My only concern is what happens when ##s=0##. Is it ##|\vec{M}|=\infty ##and ##|\vec{J_b}|=\infty ## for ##s=0##?
 
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Delta2 said:
I think you correctly calculate the curl of ##\vec{M}## as zero for all ##s\neq 0##.

My only concern is what happens when ##s=0##. Is it ##|\vec{M}|=\infty ##and ##|\vec{J_b}|=\infty ## for ##s=0##?
Yes you are right that is a problem in this case. I think it's because the wire is taken to be infinitely thin in this question. A different but very similar problem I have done before involves a cylindrical wire of radius ##a## and magnetic susceptibility ##\chi_m## where the current density inside the wire is proportional to the radius. For that problem I calculated:
$$\vec J_b = \chi_m I \frac {3s}{2\pi a^3} \hat \phi$$
Which would have ## \left|\vec J_b \right|\rightarrow 0## as ##s \rightarrow 0##, avoiding that issue.
 
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