Magnetic field outside of a solenoid conceptual

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the magnetic field outside a solenoid, exploring why it is considered to be practically zero. Participants examine various theoretical explanations and implications of this phenomenon, touching on concepts from electromagnetism and the behavior of magnetic fields in relation to solenoids.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the magnetic field outside a solenoid is nearly zero because the magnetic field lines cancel out due to symmetry.
  • Others argue that while the net magnetic force may cancel, the force on an object placed at a specific point outside the solenoid is not zero, as it is closer to one end than the other.
  • There is a discussion about the effect of solenoid length and current on the magnetic field density outside, with some proposing that increasing current while stretching the solenoid could maintain a constant magnetic flux density.
  • One participant mentions that a linear solenoid should exhibit a magnetic field similar to that of a bar magnet, implying that the field is not truly zero outside but rather weaker.
  • Another participant suggests analyzing the contributions of magnetic fields from differential elements of the solenoid to understand why the field is weaker outside.
  • A later reply proposes a method using Biot-Savart Law and Ampere's Law to derive that the magnetic field outside the solenoid is indeed zero, although this is presented as a proof rather than a consensus agreement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and implications of the magnetic field outside a solenoid. While some agree on the concept of cancellation, others challenge the completeness of this explanation and the conditions under which it holds true. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact behavior of the magnetic field in various scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the explanations provided are qualitative and may not fully prove the claims regarding the magnetic field outside a solenoid. There are also references to specific mathematical approaches that may depend on certain assumptions or conditions.

Sho Kano
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How come the magnetic field outside a solenoid is practically zero?
I've read reasons along the lines of:

-The magnetic field cancels out on the outside.
Of course the net force cancels out, but what if you have an object placed on just one spot? The force on that object clearly is not 0 because it is closer to one side of the solenoid than the other.

-The field lines spread outside the solenoid so much, that the density goes to zero as the solenoid gets longer.
This seems like it only happens in cases that say you start out with a solenoid of fixed length and current, then extend it out to a very large number. If you increase the current at the same time you are stretching the coil, the magnetic flux density will remain somewhat constant won't it? Now what if you don't stretch the solenoid at all? What if you had a solenoid of infinite length to begin with- is the field still 0 outside?

Another question: Why is the field outside nearly zero at all? Each current running through each section will contribute to a magnetic field outside...
 
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A linear solenoid should have a field similar to a bar magnet. While the field is largest near the "poles" it's hardly 0 since magnetic field must close on themselves.
 
Just consider the field produced by two small elements of the loop situated at the two opposite ends of a diameter.
See how the fields add in the center of the loop and somewhere outside, in a point on the same diameter.
This will show you why the field is weaker outside.
 
Sho Kano said:
How come the magnetic field outside a solenoid is practically zero?
You are right, this is not obious

Sho Kano said:
I've read reasons along the lines of:

-The magnetic field cancels out on the outside.
-The field lines spread outside the solenoid so much, that the density goes to zero as the solenoid gets longer.
Regarding the first statement, we know it is right but we want to know why. As for the second statement it is only a qualitative one and does not prove anything

One way we prove the correct result is this:
- Apply Biort-Savart to four differential elements, two of them situated obove your position and the other two below it. The two elementes must be situated on a circle perpendicular to the cylinder axis and simetrically situated from your point of sight
- The above analysis yields that the the field is parallel to the cylinder's axis
- Using Ampere's Law to an appropiate contour inside and outside the cylinder yields the the field mus be constant. The values outside and inside could be different however.
- Using Ampere´s law to an appropiate contour one part of it lying inside and the other outside we get:$$B(outside)-B(inside)=-\mu_0NI$$
- By integration of Biot-Savart Low calculate B on the axis of the cylinder which gives : B(inside)=##\mu_0NI##
- The last two results render B(outside)=0
 
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