Magnetic force driving a small iron ball

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the magnetic force exerted on a small iron ball by a solenoid's magnetic field. Participants explore the relationship between magnetic field strength and force, considering various factors such as the ball's position, magnetic susceptibility of iron, and the solenoid's characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to use the formula F=ma to calculate the ball's acceleration but struggles to find a way to convert magnetic field strength (in Tesla) to force (in Newton).
  • Another participant suggests that the equations the original poster finds irrelevant are actually necessary for understanding the problem.
  • A participant notes that the ball will move toward the area of highest magnetic flux intensity but expresses uncertainty about how to calculate the force acting on the stationary iron mass.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of the calculation, mentioning the magnetic susceptibility of iron and the importance of the distance from the coil center.
  • One participant proposes using the Biot-Savart law to calculate the axial magnetic field outside the solenoid, while acknowledging that this approach ignores the distortion caused by the iron ball.
  • There is a suggestion that the susceptibility of iron can be assumed to be infinite for simplification, which could aid in the calculations.
  • A principle is introduced regarding the "suction" pressure on the ball's surface, relating it to magnetic energy density, and a formula for the force is provided, though it requires integration and consideration of angles.
  • A final post questions the relevance of the term "small" in relation to the iron ball, indicating that size comparisons may be significant in the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the calculation methods and the factors influencing the magnetic force, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on assumptions about the magnetic susceptibility of iron, the simplifications made regarding the solenoid's magnetic field, and the need for integration in the proposed calculations.

Elementrist
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How can I calculate the force from magnetic field of a solenoid, grabbing a small iron ball?
I want to use the good old simple F=ma formula in order to calculate the ball's acceleration.
But can't find a formula to somehow convert the known field quality (in unit Tesla) to Force (in unit Newton).

These are known:
  • The magnetic field of the solenoid in mT at the point where ball is placed initially.
  • The magnetic field of the solenoid in mT at exactly the center of the coil.
  • The inductance of the coil and its DC resistance.
  • the mass of the iron ball.
  • Initial speed of the ball (which is zero)
I found some formulas related to magnetic fields and force, searching for these keywords, but they contain q (electric charge) and B (flux) and other vector qualities I know nothing about or seem irrelevant to my question.

Please help me with this calculation, or at least guide me by giving me words I can search for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Those equations that "seem irrelevant"? Those are exactly the ones you need.

Think about it this way: in an ideal solenoid where the field is constant everywhere, which way does the ball move?
 
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I know it moves toward the point with the most flux intensity. (Or field intensity, which ever the right terminology is).
The problem is the force that forces that movement, is not known to me.
There are formulas that measure that force for a moving charge (q) but not for a solid stationary iron mass.

I asked this question on another forum and someone said it's not easy to calculate, since it's related to magnetic susceptibility of iron and also the distance from coil center (where the field or flux(?) is the strongest) is an important factor to consider.
 
Elementrist said:
I know it moves toward the point with the most flux intensity. (Or field intensity, which ever the right terminology is).
The problem is the force that forces that movement, is not known to me.
There are formulas that measure that force for a moving charge (q) but not for a solid stationary iron mass.

I asked this question on another forum and someone said it's not easy to calculate, since it's related to magnetic susceptibility of iron and also the distance from coil center (where the field or flux(?) is the strongest) is an important factor to consider.
You can calculate the axial B field outside the solenoid using Biot-Savart. This ignores the distortion of B due to the iron unfortunately, so assume a strong solenoid B field and a small ball!

You then need to make a simplification: susceptibility of the iron is infinite. This is a very good assumption for iron or other high-permeability material.

Principle: There is "suction" pressure at every point along the surface of the ball. This pressure is equal to the magnetic energy density at each point (can be derived from virtual work principle). Thus, the "suction" force at each differential area dA everywhere along the ball is ## F = BH/2~ dA##.

However, this force is everywhere normal to the surface so B has to be the component of B normal to the surface, and the force itself is also of course normal. I'm thinking the normal component of B could be ## B cos(\theta) ## with ## \theta ## the angle between the normal and B which is assumed axial with the solenoid.

You then would need to do some amount of integration.
 
Last edited:
Elementrist said:
How can I calculate the force from magnetic field of a solenoid, grabbing a small iron ball?
Small compared to what?? It matters.
 

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