Magnetic repulsion force between two cylindrical magnets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the investigation of the magnetic repulsion force between two cylindrical magnets, specifically focusing on measuring this force when one magnet is pushed towards a stationary magnet until it reaches zero velocity. The scope includes experimental methods and theoretical considerations related to magnetic fields and forces.

Discussion Character

  • Experimental/applied
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experimental setup involving two ferromagnetic disk magnets and the measurement of the magnetic force at the moment before repulsion occurs, using magnetic field sensors.
  • Another participant presents a formula for stored energy in magnetic fields and suggests that the force can be derived from this energy with respect to distance.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the applicability of the energy formula to their situation, questioning whether the variables involved are relevant for permanent magnets as opposed to electromagnets.
  • Further clarification is provided that voltage is not relevant in this context, and the movement of the second magnet is contingent upon the force exceeding static friction, suggesting a method to measure the repulsion force using gravitational force on a slope.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the applicability of the energy formula to the scenario with permanent magnets, indicating a disagreement on the theoretical approach to measuring the magnetic force.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of variables in the energy formula and the specific conditions under which the measurements are taken, particularly concerning the influence of static friction and gravitational forces.

FA@A
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I'm doing an investigation where I am trying to find the repulsion force of cylindrical magnets. For this I have two ferromagnetic disk magnets on their sides, so that the curved sides face each other. In the investigation I push one of the magnets with a constant force towards a stationary one, and I'm trying to find the magnetic force between them the moment that the moving magnets has 0 velocity before it starts being repelled backwards. I then increase the magnetic field of the stationary magnet and repeat the process. I'm having trouble finding a way to determine this magnetic force. I have magnetic field sensors and can measure the distance between the magnets when v = 0.
 
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The stored energy is

W = ½∫B·H dV = 1/2μ0∫B2 dV
where dv is integral over all volume (includuing inside magnets).
The force in the x direction is

Fx = dW/dx

Bob S
 
Bob S said:
The stored energy is

W = ½∫B·H dV = 1/2μ0∫B2 dV
where dv is integral over all volume (includuing inside magnets).
The force in the x direction is

Fx = dW/dx

Bob S

I'm not entirely sure that this would work for me. I'm assuming that the 'V' is voltage, but I'm using permanent magnets and this seems like it applies to electromagnets?
 
FA@A said:
I'm not entirely sure that this would work for me. I'm assuming that the 'V' is voltage, but I'm using permanent magnets and this seems like it applies to electromagnets?
Voltage does not appear in this situation. The second magnet starts moving when the force exceeds the static friction force. It should be the same if the two magnets repel each other or attract each other. If you put the two magnets on a slope where gravity becomes important, you can measure the actual force by comparing the repulsion force to mg.

Bob S
 

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